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Graham Ham
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Funny, i used a 'crap metal' oil pump for around 10 years when i raced an a65 both with and without end fed crank.
If you rebuild one properly they are fine, the racing engine i've just done which did very well last weekend uses one
as well, with an a10 crank, yes itr's end fed but the previous tuned hornet motor that i built for the guy last season was
a plain bush crank. He uses a blood line of 6800 on the new motor and 7500 on the 650. No oil/lubrication problems at all.
Any machine operator with a reasonable size mill can do the line boring of the bearing in a couple of hours, the bloke i got
to do the last one had never seen a bsa before, it's fine. I really can;t see why you have such problems. Yes some auto
cranks are fed at more than one main but why should that make a difference? My own road a65 has done 19k miles with
the original bottom end and the oil light still goes out on operation of the kick starter. When it starts to come on below
1000 rpm or so i suppose i'll strip down and replace the bush if it needs it. When i rebuilt it i didn't replace any bearings
at all including the big end shells. It's all original, just put together reasonably well. I admit i did replace the pistons a month
or two ago as they were badly corroded when i bought it and the top ring gaps were crap, i replaced the guides as well but
only because i had some pm ones and they last better and i stuck big inlet valves in.
The factories of triumph bsa and norton were all full of ancient machinery as are a lot of home workshops now. Knowing
how to set up and use them is the important thing, that's how they got away with it.
It is a shame you have such a bad view of the a65, they really are a nice old crate. Of my bikes the t120 certainly has
required more maintenance over the years than the a65, or the daytona i sold a while ago and they are all ridden just
as hard.

As i've never owned a Bandit or Fury (few have) i can;t comment on the shortcomings of them but can only say that the
direction of producing an OHC horizontally split 350 was not a bad thing to do. We can only rely on hearsay as to the
actual bikes so i'll reserve judgement until i ride one, or work on one. They were a lightweight 350 producing around
34HP so would probably have given most 500's and 650's a 'hurry-up'. in my opinion.

Last edited by NickL; 10/02/20 8:00 am.
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Originally Posted by DavidP
a fragile OVC

Blimey ! , That don't sound good eek

So where about should I start looking to see if my old BSA's got one of these fragile OVC thingy's ?

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In general BSA's choice of materials was reasonably good.
A fine balance between cost & durability, weight & sturdiness, machine ability & precision


Every one who has never studied metallurgy is always over ready to criticisie & condem the use of zinc based pressure die casting alloys.
They seem to overlook that the EXAT SAME ALLOYS are in common use today for carburettor fuel injector pumps and a myriad of other critical items.

Yes there were better materials that could have been used but that goes for just about every item manufactured by man, unless it is designed to kill, maim or mutilate as many humans as possible in which case there are no rstriction on material costs so tripple vacuum melted titanium is fine.

Steel gears running in a zinc or aluminium casting have been used for oil pumps since the first mechanical gear oil pump.
The fact that after 50 years ( 80 for the early B & M series ) some are no longer servicabe is a simple fact of life, they have exceeded their planed service life, by several decades .
And the fact that after 50 years some are still running is a tribute to the original design & materials selection particularly considering the oil they pumped carried a high level of micro particles.

When it come to robustness of design, I am a testiment to just how well BSA's were made.
I cringe some time when remembering all of the horrid things I did to my first A 10 then there was the B40 I rode daily for 5 yeas with no cage left in the big end bearing. The 70 mile tip back home with on con rod on the A 10 locked solid on the crank , slowly smashing the barrels .
So I for one have great respect of the products of Small Heath .
What I do not have respect for is all the modern owners who will not ride their bikes because they klunk when you put them into gear of they leave 3 drops of oil after screaming 20 miles at 3 times the legal speed limit, ot they take 4 kicks to start or the hear a funny noise or ther is a ticking sound or,or,or,or,or,
any excust to rip the engine apart an not to ride the bike, just is case it might break done , as if that is the end of the earth .


Bike Beesa
Trevor
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Modern bikes and cars, as complicated as they have become, have spoiled mechanical knowledge in the latest two generations.
Too many of them don't want to get their hands dirty. It might soil the buttons on their video games.

People have become accustomed to quiet, nearly unrepairable vehicles, bought new at high prices, and later, higher repair costs.
Honda sold hundreds of thousands 350 and 360 Honda twins, but where are they all now? Scrapped, as Honda parts prices were so high that
it wasn't economical to repair them.

I'll stick with our old BSAs and Triumphs. They were built to be repairable, so we do!
I'm not interested in paying $20,000 or more for a NEW bike just to give my butt a ride from Point A to Point B.

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+1 with Nick.
Back "in the day" in UK I had a couple of A10s with sidecars----used them for about ten years as our only form of transport.
Reason---couldn't afford anything else.
These bikes were thrashed pretty hard----loaded with wife and two kids, loaded up with them plus luggage to go on holiday every year.
No special treatment--no end fed cranks--no special oil pumps etc etc--just bog standard BSA as they left the factory.
One of them I got really cheap from a City Of Birmingham (UK) police auction. It was an ex police bike that had been in an accident and the frame was bent.
No problem--leave the frame as it was and stick on a sidecar. Front tire wearing more on one side?--take it off and turn it around.

Ref the Bandit/Fury--yes--a really good concept and I think it would have been a roaring success.
I remember being at the MIRA (Motor Industries Research Association) test track near Nuneaton doing cooling tests on a car when Percy Tait was testing a Bandit. He was timed at 115 mph on the test track.
What might have been eh?

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Originally Posted by Boomer
Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Originally Posted by DJinCA
I also remember Gary's 3 '67 BSA's at the show being some of the stars. Beautifully restored East Coast and West Coast Hornets and a Wasp. If you were trying to collect good photos of classic Brits, why would you not take advantage of that opportunity?
I spent some time chatting to Gary and admiring his bikes at Petaluma. I don't know why anybody would have refused an offer like that.



Maybe they were blinded by the 14,000 watt light!


Bill B...

Good one Bill. That searchlight is almost as fun as vintage British bikes. At 800 million candlepower and a 5.5 mile beam, it's a hoot to play with. At 22" feet long, it's difficult to have more than one though.


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1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
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Regarding the alloy oil pump , my 70 did have one of those when i wheeled it out of the show room in early 71 as proud as a peacock. Funny how i got a girlfriend very soon after i got the bike .......i think she liked all the chrome she could look at herself in

Anyway the alloy pump .....it let go in 2005? as a couple of those stupidly inadequate body screws stripped in service ..its failure DID NOT blow the motor AND it would have been repairable , but since i had brought a cast iron pump whilst visiting UK many years earlier i fitted that

SO the shi* metal ally pump actually lasted 35 years

To me the worst thing on the A65s etc. were those Smiths magnetic instruments I think im on my 3rd/4th speedo , but hey one got burnt so i can excuse that one now those instruments sure were a cost cutting measure compared to the chronometrics I have learned how to fix even those now but when i was a young fellow they were completely beyond me


BTW
top thread Leon Bee it has been a very interesting and entertaining one


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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Interesting responses, indeed, Ignoramus. I was just impressed by that guy's big flashy looking website, you know, as though he might know what he was talking about. Can't remember how I came across it, but a casual reader would infer these bikes were absolute junk. I've owned and ridden hard A65s since 1967. Three of them I have now I've owned or known since 1974.

I'm sure Trevor is right that it is not good to steer any hits to his website, but that will end soon I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by leon bee
Interesting responses, indeed, Ignoramus. I was just impressed by that guy's big flashy looking website, you know, as though he might know what he was talking about. Can't remember how I came across it, but a casual reader would infer these bikes were absolute junk. I've owned and ridden hard A65s since 1967. Three of them I have now I've owned or known since 1974.

I'm sure Trevor is right that it is not good to steer any hits to his website, but that will end soon I'm sure.

I wouldn't boycott CBS just because of some info on his website; it's a parts business, not a news magazine. I can "take or leave" any website content that's not relevant to the business. Kyle at CBS is responsive and prompt, and he's making a genuine effort to build a successful parts business.


Mark Z

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And he is a young guy, no going to retire in a year or two. smile
Big plus.

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Originally Posted by Mark Z
...I wouldn't boycott CBS just because of some info on his website; it's a parts business, not a news magazine. I can "take or leave" any website content that's not relevant to the business. Kyle at CBS is responsive and prompt, and he's making a genuine effort to build a successful parts business.
Is CBS affiliated with the website under discussion?


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That was my question. The "Contact Us" page has the name, Andy Tallone.


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This needs sorted out, CBS / Kyle is a decent sort, the link that kicked this off has nothing to do with CBS.

My tuppence worth, an end fed needle ball Timing side is a good thing, I have never regretted buying my bike which had one fitted previously.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
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Originally Posted by Mark Z
I wouldn't boycott CBS just because of some info on his website; it's a parts business, not a news magazine. I can "take or leave" any website content that's not relevant to the business. Kyle at CBS is responsive and prompt, and he's making a genuine effort to build a successful parts business.

This is like an example of the telephone game, where the original message gets totally jumbled by the time it gets to the last person. Mark, not sure where you got that CBS was involved in this fiasco ? CBS being Classic British Spares.

Originally Posted by Hugh Jörgen
Is CBS affiliated with the website under discussion?

No, not by a long shot.


Jon W.


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1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
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I concur with Jon. That website and CBS are two different entities.


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I too was wondering how Classic British Spares got dragged into this. The thread is about Classic British Motorcycles. Kyle is a very decent fellow and knowledgeable about Brit bikes. He would not have made the glaring errors on the CBM site.

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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
This needs sorted out, CBS / Kyle is a decent sort, the link that kicked this off has nothing to do with CBS.

My tuppence worth, an end fed needle ball Timing side is a good thing, I have never regretted buying my bike which had one fitted previously.


Yes, but not an absolute necessity eh?

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Not an absolute necessity, but its the difference between fingers crossed and confidence for me.

If you are lucky enough to get a low mileage bike thats had its oil changed regularly, great.
If you buy a well used old nail , the TS bush is almost certainly fecked.
As a Fifer once put it plainly, "A65s are soft." Thats why they are cheap. Unfortunately folk like shiny pipes and paint more than engine integrity.

But , even when almost close to certain death they will still run, which is what I like about BSAs.
They are made of good stuff.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 10/02/20 11:01 pm.

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as long as i know how it's put together
i will cane the hide off any a65.

Surely the comment about buying an old nail applies to any of the 60's bikes we are talking about.
The TS bush is unfortunate in that it will be the first thing to wear with crap oil quality or supply.
Big ends on any bike will follow suit very shortly but the bush doesn't have the benefit of the
centrifugal filter the big ends have.

Last edited by NickL; 10/03/20 12:41 am.
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Did you guys who are so offended actually read all of the article? It does mention how the factory did sort out most of the
problems eventually. To me it reads just Iike article on any Brit bike, many problems that were never fully sorted out by the manufacturers. CBS is a decent vendor so let him have his opinion just like we all do..


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“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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@Hillbilly , the link and its opinions have nothing to do with CBS, its not CBS / kyles opinions that are being scrutinized.
Look at the link , its Classic british Motorcycles. NOT CBS.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 10/03/20 12:03 am.

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Geez, my bad.. I picked up the the CBS comments...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
@Hillbilly , the link and its opinions have nothing to do with CBS, its not CBS / kyles opinions that are being scrutinized.
Look at the link , its Classic british Motorcycles. NOT CBS. mods should sort this out and delete stuff.

I already differentiated between the two....WTF wasn't clear, over ?


Jon W.


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1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
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1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


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Obviously not.Roger that. Stay calm John.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 10/03/20 12:04 am.

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My apologies to CBS for any misguided criticism I may have inadvertently instigated. The only similarities I see in their sites is the color red.

CBS is one of the emerging businesses that makes our lives a little easier. I've placed a number of small orders there and they get 100% positive feedback from me.

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