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#824925 09/26/20 11:53 pm
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https://www.classic-british-motorcycles.com/bsa-a65.html

Who is this guy to write this cr*p about my bikes. Is he on britbike?

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"in 1966 BSA replaced the drive-side (left) caged ball main bearing to a roller race. This removed the positive location of the crankshaft, allowing it to wander from side to side, quickly wearing out the flimsy shims & thrust washer intended to cope with the situation. This usually lead to a spun timing-side main bush, cutting off the oil supply to the crankshaft completely" - well certainly does not appear to know much about the A65. The timing bush is two piece, pinned together and the inside flange has two flats that sit in notches in the case so it cannot lead to a "spun timing-side main bush".
"BELOW: This 1971 BSA A65 Lightning features the black frame. Note the Lightning was the twin-carb hotrod 650." - the picture clearly shows the single carb Thunderbolt.
"ABOVE: The 1971 BSA A65 Thunderbird was the single-carb roadster version." - that is the Lightning.
On the Racing page he has:
"This 1969 Triumph Trident T150 Road Racer was campaigned by the legendary Gene Romero (above)." - I am fairly certain Gene Romero was not riding a lowboy frame triple with alloy slider disc brakes in 1969. Especially one with a headlight and tail light. Maybe it was for Bol d'Or?

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Leon,
Not sure if the writer is a Forum member, but I think for the most part the article is factually fairly accurate. I think one bad decision after another led to BSA's failure. The motorcycle industry was going in a different direction in those days and BSA did not. Their sports car industry went in the same direction.
That never stopped me from liking BSA's, MG's and Austin Healy's and Jaguars.. I just liked them all, and learned how to fix what was wrong. Would love to have a Gold Star or a 100-6 Healy or a XK-120 Jag but I am now down to a single mototcycle to remind me of my love affair with these bikes. My B50 stays in the shed most of the time. I don't frequent the site much more but remember you well for your many posts. I have a few old sailboats I fixed up and spend many afternoons on the water rather than on a country road winding up my BSA.

Keep up the hobby! As long as you love'em, who cares.

Mr Mike

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I know who he is. I don't know if he is a forum member. He is a Triumph guy. Has also owned a Norton. Don't know if he ever owned a BSA. He has more recently faded from the vintage British bike scene. He is now more into promoting the buying and selling of mobile home/manufactured home parks.

When he was big into getting photos of every possible British machine (for his website) at the BSAOCNC's annual west coast British bike show and swap meet, I offered to walk each of my three bikes I had in the show that year to his photo setup so he could get the photos he wanted. He turned me down.

Another time I commented to him that he could say something positive or nice about BSA's. All I got from him was a blank look.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
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He can argue technical merits or lack thereof but he goes on and on about how ugly the unit construction A65s are! Personally, I love the looks of the bikes and their power egg engine!

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I think the "power egg" concept was developed by a noted designer of the time (Lowey ?). He was into clean lines and simple shapes. I think it was also thought it would help with oil tightness. Obviously, the concept was not universally accepted. I have to admit I always liked the look of the A65 especially the flat-track bikes but I own an A10.


Laurence Luce
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Thing is if they are such a POS how come many are still going 50 plus years latter ?


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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I am not totally in love with the looks of the A65, even though I own two of them.

I'm really a Triumph guy, but I will say this:

To me, the A65 is a better handling, more solid bike in the curves than any of my Triumphs, and I believe it's because BSA frames were race-bred,
beginning with the Gold Stars.

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Leon, has he used your bikes in the photos?

I don’t know who this guy is but something has stung his ass about them, like was left in the smoke by some guy on one, or he had one which he didn’t have the skills to keep it running right and became sworn enemies with them ever since.

Either that or he’s a genius and everyone that owns one are just Dumb sheep.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
I am not totally in love with the looks of the A65

I'm really a Triumph guy, but I will say this:


That makes me think of the age old question or statements such as I only like blonds or brunettes or whatever. As soon as you say I really like redheads, a super beautiful black haired woman comes along and you think to yourself...wow !

Same with the British motorcycles we all love. Each marque has its fine points and certain models of each might not appeal to the eye as much as others. Personally, I see extreme beauty and attractiveness in most all of them !


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


"Every time I listen to AC/DC, so do my neighbors"

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one of the things i do like about BSAs is that apart from a few specialist tasks they were largely intended to be worked on , maintained, but the average working man who would typically buy a non-pretensions BSA to get to work and back .....sure the lightening's DBDs RGSs etc were blinged out to appeal to one particular market

my A65 will still hit 100mph at the drop of a hat if i "request" it to but having thrashed it mercilessly while it and i were younger i dont tend to do that anymore

so my advice to the ill-informed author of the offending article would be go boil your head and try to become a motorcyclist ......and i dont mean the alloy head because i doubt he would know how to remove it


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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They've all got their warts and good things. The old beezers are OK.

Always makes me wonder with these 'Experts', did they ever own and run one and for how long?
His Knowledge regarding the engine history is laughable if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by leon bee
https://www.classic-british-motorcycles.com/bsa-a65.html

Who is this guy to write this cr*p about my bikes. Is he on britbike?

He's just copied-and-pasted a lot of boilerplate about BSA twins that's the same stuff we've been reading for 48 years. There's nothing new there, nothing original, just the same old stuff; combination of urban legend, facts from period magazines, and descriptive opinion that has nothing to do with facts.

Why anyone would bother, I don't know.....

Lannis


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Agree with you, Lannis. What he posted is the standard mo. None of it is based on his own experience. Just like mention Lucas electrics and some nob says "Prince of Darkness".


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


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Originally Posted by Gary E
I know who he is. I don't know if he is a forum member. He is a Triumph guy. Has also owned a Norton. Don't know if he ever owned a BSA. He has more recently faded from the vintage British bike scene. He is now more into promoting the buying and selling of mobile home/manufactured home parks.

When he was big into getting photos of every possible British machine (for his website) at the BSAOCNC's annual west coast British bike show and swap meet, I offered to walk each of my three bikes I had in the show that year to his photo setup so he could get the photos he wanted. He turned me down.

I know who he is too. In the time that I have known him, he has had a T140 that never seemed to be running and a Sportster. I didn't know that he had moved on to mobile home parks, but I am not too surprised. He is a bit of a self promoter, spamming the club mailing list with promotion of his site and wanted the Clubman Show database for his use after we shut down the show (politely declined)

I also remember Gary's 3 '67 BSA's at the show being some of the stars. Beautifully restored East Coast and West Coast Hornets and a Wasp. If you were trying to collect good photos of classic Brits, why would you not take advantage of that opportunity?

DJinCA

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Originally Posted by DJinCA
I also remember Gary's 3 '67 BSA's at the show being some of the stars. Beautifully restored East Coast and West Coast Hornets and a Wasp. If you were trying to collect good photos of classic Brits, why would you not take advantage of that opportunity?
I spent some time chatting to Gary and admiring his bikes at Petaluma. I don't know why anybody would have refused an offer like that.

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"BELOW: The 1971 BSA A65 Firebird Scrambler was the off-road/street scrambler version with single-carb and high side pipes."

But Firebird Scramblers had dual carbs, including the one in the picture!


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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When buying stuff off easy I always check out the "Other items"
If the vendor is selling everything from condomes to maternity bras then they get a broad berth because it is blinding obvious they have no idea about what they are selling ( or the condom customers would not be coming back for maternity bras )

When it comes to published material either in hard print or tortured electron the story is the same .
A web page covering veything that ever rode down the street is bound to be very poorley written unless there is a variety of authors and has taken years to be completed .

Think Roy Bacon or Peter Henshaw .
Cut and paste books loaded with wrong information & loaded opinion.

This tosser obviously has very small genetalia and in order to build up his self esteem decided to publish a lot of rubbish that he obviously nows absolutely nothing about in order tp make people talk about him .
HE is not alone on the web by any means .

The best thing you can do is remove any link to his web page ( including the one here ) and never mention him except by spoken word .
Eventually Google will loose him and he will fade into obsecurity where opinionated morons with massive egos and tiny brains belong .
Even better go to known good quality pages every day.
That pushes them up and sends poo down the toilet where it belongs


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Single carb, A65, "Thunderbird".

Just plain sloppy work of someone who really doesn't care.


'68 B25 Starfire (single)
'72 A65 Thunderbolt (twin (I'm sensing a pattern here..))
'78 XS750 Triple (Because I just can't get my hands on
a Rocket Three...)
'87 K100GS (four banger (Because NVT gave up too quick..)
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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Thing is if they are such a POS how come many are still going 50 plus years latter ?
Perhaps because their owners have access to top flight machine shops and can afford to correct the deficiencies of the original design. End-fed cranks, proper oil pumps, the things which BSA management failed to do.
I noticed the same errors in the post, the one thing he got right was the spectacular failures of management. He didn't even mention the gold Daimlers for the CEO and his wife.
Don't get me started on delaying production of the Trident until it was too late.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
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An end fed crank is not required if engine looked after properly.
Admittedly an oil filter would have been a good idea though.
Gear type oil pumps are very good, most cars use them. How many use piston pumps?
A top line engineering shop was never required to rebuild a beezer just half a brain and some patience.
Most problems were caused by plonker owners.
Just as many such plonkers had problems with Triumphs, Nortons etc etc.
Management were selling off the firm, so were not really concerned with making motorbikes.
The trident needed too much precision assembly for the factory at the time and would have
needed to be much cheaper to take the market by storm. The bandit/fury was a more realistic
direction but would have damaged the sales of the main line products.

If i owned a factory as big as beezers back then i would have considered a gold plated Rolls myself.
It's just that beezer owned Daimler around that time so use what you own eh?

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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
Originally Posted by DJinCA
I also remember Gary's 3 '67 BSA's at the show being some of the stars. Beautifully restored East Coast and West Coast Hornets and a Wasp. If you were trying to collect good photos of classic Brits, why would you not take advantage of that opportunity?
I spent some time chatting to Gary and admiring his bikes at Petaluma. I don't know why anybody would have refused an offer like that.



Maybe they were blinded by the 14,000 watt light!


Bill B...


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Come off it Dave.Hundreds of Beesas running around that have been used & abused by owners who just bough them cause they were cheap & considered maintanance was putting fuel & oil in the bike , some times even in the right holes.
When run WFO for long times things could be a bit different, but for doing what they were intended for they were just an honest no fuss motorcycle.
I know of a lot of bikes, owned by people who are technically challenged by a screwdriver that are still running quite fine.
OTOH if you wanted to get 11 10th out of one, or are unable to accept the bike as it was accepted in the day, oil leaks & lack lustre brakes then yes you need to do a lot of fettling, on some .
Easy to critise now days when parts roll of modern computer controlled machines all identical to within 0.0001" so everything fits and is oil tight.
BAck then it was high carbon steel for the production line and high speed steel tooling for the comp shop so no two parts were ever identical .

As for the management Kohler said it all in his thsis & latter book.
It is a subject that we often ponder over & Shane nailed it decades ago.
The board was gearing up for WW III which they all knew was going to happen between the USA & the USSR any second .
Another war in which it would be happy high profit days again, that unfortunately never happened.
BY the time BSA realised this it was too late.
When looked at in this light, the sales & acuisions all make perfect strategic sense.
The government did not care what happened as BSA had paid almost no tax since the depression of the 20's when they restructured to avaoid tax.
And anything that detroyed trade unions was considered a good thing at the time.
BSA could have survived, with or without the government assistance.
Remember the non-mototcycling divisions were all very profitable ( and those still trading still are ) to the point that for 3 years their profits paid off the losse of the motorcycle division.

The BSA company is the perfect example of how consolidated capital can destroy a perfectly good business in a very short priod of time by chasing the highet possible return on capital regardless of the cost to the company .

And remember it was not the bikes that killed the company.
It was a short sell, most likely using inside information which makes ia criminal act , perpertrated by some one who was and still remains untouchable, so most likely a side member of the Royal family as their identity has been kept secret for near 50 years .


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Originally Posted by NickL
An end fed crank is not required if engine looked after properly.
Admittedly an oil filter would have been a good idea though.
Gear type oil pumps are very good, most cars use them. How many use piston pumps?
NONE of them use crap metal to make their gear pumps though.
And, the car engines which used bushings on the crank did NOT use them to feed oil to the crank. As an example, the air-cooled VW had oil feeds at three points along the crank.
Comparing automotive engines which red line at maybe 5000rpm, use wet sump lubrication and running pressures in the 30psi range is hardly applicable.

Originally Posted by NickL
A top line engineering shop was never required to rebuild a beezer just half a brain and some patience.
Then why is it so damn difficult to find a machinist who can properly ream a crank bushing? With the correct equipment, and enough patience to screw up a couple of times I could probably do it, but I don't like to practice that much.

Originally Posted by NickL
The trident needed too much precision assembly for the factory at the time and would have
needed to be much cheaper to take the market by storm. The bandit/fury was a more realistic
direction but would have damaged the sales of the main line products.
I'll agree with that. However, the Trident was supposed to be a stop-gap until more modern designs could be developed. Might have been a winner in '66, might have led to more warranty claims? Would have been easier to produce had they not been using WW1 vintage machine tools.
But, trying to compete with the CB350 with porous castings, a fragile OVC, and a crap gearbox was not the answer either.


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71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
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Originally Posted by DavidP
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Thing is if they are such a POS how come many are still going 50 plus years latter ?
Perhaps because their owners have access to top flight machine shops and can afford to correct the deficiencies of the original design. End-fed cranks, proper oil pumps, the things which BSA management failed to do.
I noticed the same errors in the post, the one thing he got right was the spectacular failures of management. He didn't even mention the gold Daimlers for the CEO and his wife.
Don't get me started on delaying production of the Trident until it was too late.

I do not have access to any "top flight machine shop" (what ever that is) probably because i dont like dealing with prima donnas ......who *ank on endlessly about line boring , but dont even know what the process is.. But hey 3 minutes on google and anyone knows as much about engineering as I do ....I must be a slow learner cause it took me 40 years in the trade whilst the "experts" master it on the internet. AND i sure as hell dont have endless $s to throw at theses bikes

I do not have an end feed conversion and i am still running points dang i also forgot to add an oil filter

i guess my bike is going to fly apart any second eh but having had it 49 years i guess i am stuck with the risk

The trade has become so dumbed down these days that "top flight" machine shops are a bit rare, modern motors have put them out of business with their phenomenal reliability

Im glad i remembered to do oil changes on my old dunga whist others were pulling themselves about line boring and end conversions

these bikes arnt the space shuttle ya know


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
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