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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823259 09/10/20 10:46 pm
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theyre talking like they will


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823327 09/11/20 12:21 pm
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"i have four boxez of NGK B10ES plugs for your yellow thing. theyll run in mine but wont start the next day."

I have read that it is sometimes necessary to warm up motors on hotter plugs, then switch to colder plugs for racing. I have never had to do that. I use NGK BR10ES along with CR9E for the second plug, because of electronic ignition, but thanks for the offer, if and when I get to see you again!

At the speeds we are going and the horsepower, or lack thereof, that we are running, I calculate that I (we) need at least one more hp for each additional mph. That doesn't sound like much, but how to get it? My mantra is "the 3 C's - - compression, carburetion, camshaft, and breathing." OK so it should be 3 C's and a B. If you've got the maximum compression (at least 14 to 1 with dual plugs), maximum carburetion ( at least as large as your intake port), and you've ported the head for best flow, then that leaves camshaft and I can't really help you there because I'm still trying to find the best combination and I can't grind my own. Of course if you can afford lots of dyno time, then you can try oodles of intake and exhaust length combinations as well.

The other problem, even with the dyno, is that I'll make 3 pulls on any given setting (inertia dyno, home grown with good software from Performance Trends) and get 3 numbers, say 59, 60, and 61. I'll then make some minor change like 3 degrees of timing and get 3 more numbers, like 58, 60, and 62. I find that with mechanical losses like transmission, clutch, wheel bearings, tire pressure, etc., I just can't get 3 identical pulls, so I just scratch my head and try some more. I had to build a sound-proof enclosure within my barn to keep the complaints down to a dull roar - - not from the neighbors, but from SWMBO!

Look at the bright side - - you have a year to get there (I will have had 2 years, but my bikes are in Colorado and I'm stuck in Nova Scotia.

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 09/11/20 12:34 pm.

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Re: mail-order LSR
koncretekid #823344 09/11/20 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by koncretekid
"Look at the bright side - - you have a year to get there (I will have had 2 years, but my bikes are in Colorado and I'm stuck in Nova Scotia.

Tom

Howdy Tom,
If you don't mind me asking, where in Colorado is your dyno located?
I would really like to see how you made it.
I salvaged some rollers and bearings from one a long time ago, but never got around to doing anything.
Now that I am retired, it might be feasible.
I am in Denver, and if you wouldn't mind, I would like to see your setup next time you get back here.
Have Prius, will travel.
Thanks, Jerry Roy

Last edited by Jerry Roy; 09/11/20 2:39 pm.
Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823345 09/11/20 2:39 pm
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tom


ah. i thought you used B10ES. theyre right on the edge of fouling for me. B9s run perfectly, 8s seem a bit hot.

im at 11.75 to 1 on compression, and rob hall ported my head for the 35 mm FCR carbs. the cam is a megacycle 510-x2,. from 11.75 im not sure how much more horespower is availble there, even with 14 to 1. i think im way up diminishing returns already. but maybe not.

its possible i could get a bit more from intake tract length. havenr done much with that. but the pipes are at 34 x 1 5/8, set at the track. i think theyre just about spot on. i could go to 1 3/4.

i know you like giant carbs and maybe i could benefit there. but i dont wsnt to re-port another head just yet without some thinking. dont you run a carb on the BSA thats way bigger than your ports?
im seriously wondering about the ignition. the ARD is simple, but i think im giving up consistent spark accuracy. its got a lot of scatter.


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Re: mail-order LSR
Jerry Roy #823371 09/11/20 4:52 pm
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Jerry,

I'm in Lafayette, actually Brownsville just off 287 and Isabelle. You're welcome to come see my set-up when I'm able to get back there. Probably not until next March, as the border is closed and at our age, we feel too vulnerable to travel thru airports to get there; then have to self-quarantine upon our return to N.S.

Kevin,

My 42mm carb has less area than your 2 FC-35's, so you've already got more carburetion than I do.

As for compression ratio, I've read that hp is relative to about 1/3rd of the percentage increase in ratio. So 14 vs. 11.75 is about a 19% increase so if that rule of thumb holds, you may be able to get as much as a 6% increase in hp. That's huge if you can get it. I think it will be harder with the Triumph because the shape of the combustion chamber may lead to detonation, but certainly worth a try.

I wouldn't bother to increase the diameter of the exhausts, but they may actually be a little long for maximum hp. Shortening them a couple of inches may move the max hp up some rpm, but you may get more reversion at lower rpm making the transition thru that rpm, whatever that is, a little rougher. My motors don't generally like to run below 4,000 rpm.

Food for thought!

Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823389 09/11/20 7:47 pm
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So kevin, now that you are done going in a straight line, can I get you and your daughters to come to an oval? Season is winding down, at least one more at Salem


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823564 09/12/20 11:39 pm
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Kevin
The "flutter" you are seeing on the ignition timing could be "points bounce" ?
Do you have a spare set to try?
EI would not suffer this inherent "fault" of points controlled ignition

John

Re: mail-order LSR
koncretekid #823645 09/13/20 7:00 pm
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Originally Posted by koncretekid
At the speeds we are going and the horsepower, or lack thereof, that we are running, I calculate that I (we) need at least one more hp for each additional mph. That doesn't sound like much, but how to get it? My mantra is "the 3 C's - - compression, carburetion, camshaft, and breathing." OK so it should be 3 C's and a B. If you've got the maximum compression (at least 14 to 1 with dual plugs), maximum carburetion ( at least as large as your intake port), and you've ported the head for best flow, then that leaves camshaft and I can't really help you there because I'm still trying to find the best combination and I can't grind my own. Of course if you can afford lots of dyno time, then you can try oodles of intake and exhaust length combinations as well.

there are various low-brain mechanical calculators on the net that let you plug in compression ratio changes and derive horsepower estimates. they mostley suggest a 4 percent increase in HP with a change from 11.75 to 14, which is in line with what you say. increasing speed from 135 to 140 might take as much as 7 horsepower, according to yet another online calculator. but like 90 percent of the horsepower necessary to go 135 mph is done overcoming drag.

i still have one set of 11.75 to 1 pistons to mess up. i think i'm going to see what i can do with aerodynamics until theyre gone, and then bump the cpompression. and see where we are. i'm running low on experimental money this winter, and i'm not sure how much more of my fat ass i can lose to stay out of the wind. i lost ten pounds to fold up closer this fall, and i can lose another 10 without much difficulty. i'm going to do some shadowbox measurements and see where i can reduce frontal area and drag.

Quote
The other problem, even with the dyno, is that I'll make 3 pulls on any given setting (inertia dyno, home grown with good software from Performance Trends) and get 3 numbers, say 59, 60, and 61. I'll then make some minor change like 3 degrees of timing and get 3 more numbers, like 58, 60, and 62. I find that with mechanical losses like transmission, clutch, wheel bearings, tire pressure, etc., I just can't get 3 identical pulls, so I just scratch my head and try some more. I had to build a sound-proof enclosure within my barn to keep the complaints down to a dull roar - - not from the neighbors, but from SWMBO!

i've never done dyno work, just repeated timed runs at the track. but i've done a lot of them. i can get three runs out of my tanks and then go back and mull over my times. there's no tight precision,. but there's enough consistency to see whether i've gone in the right direction or not. that s the best i can do.


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Re: mail-order LSR
Rich B #823646 09/13/20 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by Rich B
So kevin, now that you are done going in a straight line, can I get you and your daughters to come to an oval? Season is winding down, at least one more at Salem

damn, i dunno. i don't seem to be able to put that together. when is the salem race?


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Re: mail-order LSR
chaterlea25 #823647 09/13/20 7:26 pm
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Originally Posted by chaterlea25
Kevin
The "flutter" you are seeing on the ignition timing could be "points bounce" ?
Do you have a spare set to try?
EI would not suffer this inherent "fault" of points controlled ignition

John

john, you are completely correct. th epoints cam is horrifying, cant get a picture because i don't have a hi electron wire at the moment. but they do most certainly bounce

heres the same cam from a morris magneto:

[Linked Image from 3.bp.blogspot.com]

you can see that there's nothing gentle about lifting the contact points.

ive talked to barry at morris about the scatter, and there's no rebuild option that will make it any better. it is what it is.

but i have gotten 135 out of it before, so i know it can do that much.

Last edited by kevin; 09/13/20 7:26 pm.

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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823659 09/13/20 9:46 pm
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Hi Kevin,
Every bounce of the points is a misfire or partial one ? so you lose power!
A new set of points may help? I wonder if a second "leaf" or a partial spring strip fitted inside the existing one, this feature is used on some British magnetos, The second leaf acts as a damper as well as a spring assist

John

Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823684 09/14/20 12:34 am
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Originally Posted by kevin
Originally Posted by Rich B
So kevin, now that you are done going in a straight line, can I get you and your daughters to come to an oval? Season is winding down, at least one more at Salem

damn, i dunno. i don't seem to be able to put that together. when is the salem race?

I will let you know


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #823792 09/14/20 11:49 pm
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Saturday, Sept. 26 is the next race at Salem

Short track and TT.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826075 10/09/20 8:42 pm
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Hey kevin….

Last race of the season at Salem is 10-17. We are going for 3 in a row in the 450 Pro class


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826084 10/09/20 10:10 pm
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might work. i just got fired from my job yesterday, but the 17th is currently when my number two son has to be in zanesville for his driving test. everything is up in the air at the moment.


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826091 10/10/20 12:04 am
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Fired.....hmmmmmm

Practice at 4, hears at 6. You have time for the son’s driver test.


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826098 10/10/20 2:05 am
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his tezt may be on hold.stay tuned

my company had a camera that watched me drive. didnt like it when i punched a deztination into my gps without stopping.

a hitherto unannounced policy. i am unrepentant

i expect it waz simply downsizing. i traded a resignation letter for the dismissal paperwork and waz interviewing elsewhere in 30 minutes


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826116 10/10/20 10:47 am
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Dirty trick! I was afraid it might have been for speeding - - 135 mph on a deserted highway! ( or was it an airport runway?)

Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826118 10/10/20 12:49 pm
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the trucks dont do that, luckily

they weigh 92,000 pounds if i load them all the way-- highly illegal, but more profitable. i objected to driving overweight, and waz eased out

better than killing someone because i couldnt stop tho


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826126 10/10/20 2:20 pm
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Ouch. Well if you don't get a new job right away maybe you'll have time for a Fall ride


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826130 10/10/20 3:18 pm
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just got the phone call. drug test first of next week.


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826152 10/10/20 8:39 pm
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You got a job testing drugs? wink


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826159 10/10/20 10:24 pm
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there was a time when i would have jumped at the chance.

sadly, these days i have to go talk to pretty young women at the clinic who hand me a plastic cup and tell me to fill it up to a certain line. not particularly dignified but it is what it is

but it beats the stool samples i used to have to bring them back when i lived on the equator


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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826199 10/11/20 2:26 pm
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I guess they don't care if you're full of sh*t; (good thing, as we already know!) just want to make sure you've still enough p*ss and vinegar to get the job done!

Seriously, though, at my old company (now owned by Irving Oil), the drug test is mandatory and apparently, it eliminates a lot of the applicants.

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 10/11/20 2:28 pm.

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Re: mail-order LSR
kevin #826201 10/11/20 2:35 pm
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here in appalachia the oil companies had trouble hiring people as so many refused or failed drug tezts.k

i knew a kid who smoked a single joint for his birthday. tezted a month later and was sent packing. hair follicle tezting will buzt you for up to 6 months they say


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