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Clubman resources?
#813637 06/23/20 2:37 am
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Hi all,
I've been searching the old threads for info on Lightning Clubman builds. Really interesting stuff. Wasn't aware of some of the details.
Was wondering if there were any more recent updates/leads on best places to source parts for a Lightning/Clubman conversion? Many of the related posts were already several years old.

Bars:
Seat:
Rear Sets:
Tail Light:
2 into 1 Exhaust:
Side Covers:
Headlamp:

Also, if anyone knows a best match for the clubman gold paint?

Even links to any interesting sites/articles would be appreciated. Its been a while since I've done much reading on the subject.
Cheers!
-Dennis

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Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813639 06/23/20 4:02 am
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I CAN HELP WITH REAR SETS, SEND ME A MESSAGE WITH YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS.


I APOLOGIZE FOR THE USE OF CAPS. I CAN ONLY TYPE WITH MY RIGHT HAND SO USING THE SHIFT KEY IS BEYOND MY CAPABILITES.

The Devil is in the details.

1957 BSA A10 Spitfire Scrambler (numbers matching, very correct, very nice condition)
1965 BSA A65 Lightning Rocket "Clubman" (restored)
1966 BSA A65 Spitfire MK-II (restored)
1967 BSA A65 West Coast Hornet (under restoration)
1975 Norton Commando Roadster (2100 miles)
2001 Kawasaki W650
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813645 06/23/20 6:17 am
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What bike are you starting with ? A lot of bits will be standard in a 65’ like the rear light but the front forks won’t be. Some bits you’ll need to make yourself, and best of look finding the rear brake, they are often modified C15 ones, the one on mine I searched the globe for.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813655 06/23/20 10:23 am
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Originally Posted by Allan G
What bike are you starting with ? A lot of bits will be standard in a 65’ like the rear light but the front forks won’t be. Some bits you’ll need to make yourself, and best of look finding the rear brake, they are often modified C15 ones, the one on mine I searched the globe for.

Hi Allan,
I'm starting with a '67 Lightning.
Definitely appreciate the note about the rear brake. These are the things you would only learn here I would imagine.

I'm not too concerned with getting it 100% correct (at least not right away). Would just like to get it started. Figuring the bars, tank and side covers would be a good cosmetic starting point.

Speaking of which, is the clubman tank just an A65 tank with a different paint job? Or is there something special about it?

Thanks,
Dennis

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813657 06/23/20 10:45 am
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The rear sets are the only thing truly “unique” to a Clubman. I have drawings for the rear sets if you want to make your own. C15, Bantam, 500 Triumph brake pedals can all be used as organ donors for a brake pedal. I found a genuine pedal.

Tank is a home market dual carb tank. Closest match on paint is Nissan Bronze Gold. Somewhere, I have a scan of the recipe.

Fenders, headlight, taiL light fairing, side covers, wheels (19” rear), etc. are all standard 1965 Lightning Rocket bits. The one oddity, the LR had a black headlight bucket, Clubman was chrome. The chrome version is extinct, the LR version is hard to find.

The pipes that are commonly available are likely ok for a bike with no tach, needs some “attention” to make them work with a tach cable.

I found true “Clubman” bars were wrist killers. I use home market bars mounted upside down. Mostly has the look, actually pretty comfortable to ride with.

Unless you are a slave to the look, the front end is quite a bit different from 65 to 67. Biggest thing is length of the stanchions with the droop top yoke with forward bars of 62-65 unit twins versus the flat top yoke of your 67. You have, IMO, the better front end with the damper rods. Unless you have to have the look of the early front end, I wouldn’t change front ends.

A number of people sell the seat. They even show up now and then on fleaBay.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813663 06/23/20 12:27 pm
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To add to Rich's comments...

The original seats look bigger compared to the Burton Bike bits version, it also isn't a straight fit for 67' on bikes. In 67 the seat tabs moved further back, also the front hook thats supplied with the seat shoves the seat so far forward that I made my own bracket for mine, one which pulled the seat closer to the tank and much lower to the frame, I also welded on some seat tabs just for it.

Lyford classics sell some rear sets for the goldstar, most of the parts are usable apart from the hex piece which holds the footrests to the brackets. If you have a lathe I would suggest making these yourself, I sourced some originals but now i know what I'm dealing with they are simply some hex with either end threaded.

Silencers seem harder to come by, Classic Bike shop had some made and they were a good shape... Sadly I think they got Brituro to supply them and they have now ceased trading (leaving a big gap in the market)

Down pipes are easy enough to find, but a decent set are not. I made the set which are on my bike now and have an original set. The originals are different to standard Lightning siamese pipes, they are longer (for the shorter silencer) and kick up at the back. The originals don't have the tie bar although I think its a good addition. The flow on the pattern ones are terrible, the add on section aims the gasses mid stream with the right hand side, the originals tapered this over several inches.

If you want to be picky the Clubman tanks hinged differently to the Lightning ones, some open to centre and If I remember right some open to the 1 o'clock position. I have both types but cannot remember which is which. They are otherwise identical.

Re front forks: you could keep your front end but change the yokes, stanchions (and headlight brackets), to retain the damper rods you would simply extend the thread on the top of the rod then cut off the excess (ie if the drop yoke stanchion is an inch shorter, chop an inch off the damper rod) it'd make for a good front end.

Bars: I fitted Norman Hyde M bars (cost more than standard eBay items but much thicker wall and wont crush, they also dont bend up and bust the tank if you come off), they are about the closest shape you'd get to the A10 bars, you can fit these the right way up or upside down. I fitted mine the right way up and I find that comfortable. I tried Tomaselli Ace Bars, fine on the straights, made it a little harder to shift your weight through the bends and a pig to move the bike around the garage. BTW I still have the original 68 front end on mine.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813683 06/23/20 3:51 pm
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Rich B. and Allan G. have given you excellent advice.

If you go back to Britbike columns in July, 2014 you should find Allan's photos of some parts he made for his own conversion.

Rich B. provided Markoz plans to duplicate Lightning Clubman rear-sets on February 4, 2010 (see entry of 2/10/2010).

The late C15 / B40 rear brake pedal makes a good choice, as it curves low enough to clear the rear-set footrests, and looks good, too.

Find a BSA Bantam gear change lever. Mounted backwards it will work with the rear-sets.

I have been working on just such a project (off-and-on) for a few years, beginning with an incomplete '66 Lightning.

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813712 06/23/20 7:55 pm
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Rich B, Allan G, I.Swede,
Thanks for all the advice and insight to what works and what doesn't.

I'm definitely not going for accuracy at this point. I had to repair the tank (which will require new paint). My bike was black like a T-bolt, and I thought of going to the correct, red color first, but then I thought Clubman gold is pretty sweet.

Over time I'd like to chip away at the other details as money and inspiration allow.

Irish Swede, what did you mean by "Britbike Columns"? I wasn't able to locate Allan's photos.

Thanks again to all.
Cheers,
Dennis

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813714 06/23/20 8:20 pm
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Guessing it was an autocorrect of forums to columns, makes sense only if you are in Rome wink .

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813723 06/23/20 9:31 pm
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Dennis, I’ve gone through about 5 years of pics from what I took of my bike build, it is t particularly conclusive and for more detail I’d have to take the odd part off and take some more photos. There’s about 30 something pics so far so will up load them when I get a spare 30 mins


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813730 06/23/20 9:56 pm
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I have two rearset kits left from the last batch, one set for the clubman and one set for the twin pipe spitfire.

Ken Rowark

Re: Clubman resources?
Allan G #813742 06/23/20 11:46 pm
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Originally Posted by Allan G
Dennis, I’ve gone through about 5 years of pics from what I took of my bike build, it is t particularly conclusive and for more detail I’d have to take the odd part off and take some more photos. There’s about 30 something pics so far so will up load them when I get a spare 30 mins

Hey Allan,
That sounds great. I'm patient. Whenever they are there I'll check them out.
-D

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813752 06/24/20 12:45 am
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Originally Posted by kommando
Guessing it was an autocorrect of forums to columns, makes sense only if you are in Rome wink .

Gotta love those autocorrections!

Some Clubman replicas are not as exact as others, but still pleasing to my eye.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

1969ish, seat, bars, exhaust from Britishcycle, rear sets just standard pivoting foot rests turned 180 degrees, highly modified single carb tank modified to take dual carbs, etc. I can supply more details if you're interested.

Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: Clubman resources?
Rich B #813785 06/24/20 8:17 am
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The drop yoke and ace bars were not good for me, l experimented with various types,Norton commando were ok, but l tried standard lightning and found the setup extremely comfortable.
Ken

Re: Clubman resources?
koncretekid #813789 06/24/20 10:22 am
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Originally Posted by koncretekid
1969ish, seat, bars, exhaust from Britishcycle, rear sets just standard pivoting foot rests turned 180 degrees, highly modified single carb tank modified to take dual carbs, etc. I can supply more details if you're interested.

Tom

Hey Tom,
Still looks great to me. Thanks for the pics.
I'm starting to recognize some of the differences as more details are pointed out. But my conversion will likely incorporate similar changes to yours so I'm definitely interested in more details. I can PM you on the side.
-D

Re: Clubman resources?
Ken Rowark #813790 06/24/20 10:27 am
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Originally Posted by Ken Rowark
The drop yoke and ace bars were not good for me, l experimented with various types,Norton commando were ok, but l tried standard lightning and found the setup extremely comfortable.
Ken

Seems like the clubman bars are point of contention (comfort-wise) for many. Good to know my own bars flipped might be a decent fix. I'm definitely not changing the yoke in the first phase of this. That can happen down the line (if ever).
-D

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813799 06/24/20 12:04 pm
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I have been going through the old Britbike listings. I can understand why you had problems finding the information I mentioned because i couldn't locate some of it myself.

I will send you a private message about this.

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813802 06/24/20 12:13 pm
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Dennis, I am getting a message that your private message mailbox is not available.

Please send me a private message so I can reach you.

Re: Clubman resources?
Irish Swede #813813 06/24/20 1:51 pm
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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Dennis, I am getting a message that your private message mailbox is not available.
Please send me a private message so I can reach you.

I just tried to PM you, but got this error message:
"Irish Swede is over their Private Topic limit."

I didn't realize there was a limit.

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813846 06/24/20 7:58 pm
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I’ve attached a link to the thread which Irish mentioned, I think there’s more pics on here than on my phone. But I can take more if you require anything specific.

Apologies the thread bounces from one topic to another, it was how the rebuild was going at the time as to what was shown next.

Lightning Restoration


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813847 06/24/20 7:59 pm
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Just a quick add, it might be of interest but I believe the Small few produced Lightning clubmans that were produced were in red. Just a thought.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813861 06/24/20 10:16 pm
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According to Roy Bacon,1965 L and LC were the same as the 65 A50 C, Side covers( smaller than previous years) metallic gold with red lining, same for petrol tank with chrome panels,tank Badges as 62 A50 ( pear shape), Chrome headlamp shell, fork lamp ears, mudguards , wheel rims, exhaust and brake backplates, Black frame , fork legs and hubs.

1964 A65 R , Flamboyant Red , chrome mudguards and fork shrouds,

Possibly 64 bits used of on the 65 , who knows.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813873 06/25/20 12:26 am
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Dennis:

I guess we're screwed again.

I will find a way, anyway.

Re: Clubman resources?
Allan G #813887 06/25/20 2:49 am
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Originally Posted by Allan G
I’ve attached a link to the thread which Irish mentioned, I think there’s more pics on here than on my phone. But I can take more if you require anything specific.

Apologies the thread bounces from one topic to another, it was how the rebuild was going at the time as to what was shown next.

Lightning Restoration

Wow, there is a lot happening over that thread. Looks like I'll be reading for while.
Thanks for the link.

Re: Clubman resources?
Irish Swede #813889 06/25/20 2:57 am
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
According to Roy Bacon,1965 L and LC were the same as the 65 A50 C, Side covers( smaller than previous years) metallic gold with red lining, same for petrol tank with chrome panels,tank Badges as 62 A50 ( pear shape), Chrome headlamp shell, fork lamp ears, mudguards , wheel rims, exhaust and brake backplates, Black frame , fork legs and hubs.

1964 A65 R , Flamboyant Red , chrome mudguards and fork shrouds,

Possibly 64 bits used of on the 65 , who knows.

Thanks for that info, Gavin. I never bought any of Roy's books. Do you recommend any in particular?


Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Dennis: I guess we're screwed again. I will find a way, anyway.
I don't know how risky it is to post an email address here, but I could PM mine to someone else who has your email address already, and have them forward to you.

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813899 06/25/20 8:22 am
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Roy's books are written mainly from UK press releases, he hardly covers US specs at all, so there is always doubt when using his references on US restorations.

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813901 06/25/20 8:57 am
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I have copies of Roy Bacons.
" BSA twins and triples"
and
BSA twin restoration"

they are not perfect as Kommando notes, I look them up mostly to get carb specs to answer cheapskates here.
They are better than nothing, and if you have a UK model, they are very applicable.The US variants are mostly cosmetic , although if you get one of the competition models , Wasp, Cyclone ,Hornet, there seems to be a plethora of nuances that bacon doesnt cover.

The Lightning Clubman was not made in massive numbers , I have never seen a real one in the flesh, they have been features in Classic Bike magazine a few times. One of the local boys , Ewan Magregor has one, I think CB did an extensive article on it a few years ago. I suspect that like Vincents , there are now more LC reps out there than the factory made. Apart from the siamese pipe ( twin pipes were an option, I suspect the siamese pipes were mostly to appeal for sidecar owners) and Clubman bars , the main difference for the LC was the close ratio gearbox option, AFAIK this model was the first to come with a more sporting gearbox. This is a good gear set.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 06/25/20 9:03 am.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813904 06/25/20 9:45 am
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kommando & gavin,
Thanks for the thoughts on Roy's books.
Just did a quick search online, man those things aren't cheap. Wish I thought to buy them 20 years ago!

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813911 06/25/20 11:17 am
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I have a number of Bacon books. The LC has almost no coverage in them. There really isn’t much info anywhere except in assorted articles in assorted magazines that cover the vintage bike scene.

There is likely as much good info on this forum as exists anywhere. You just have to find it all.

There were 190 built. 45 or so are known to exist. I have seen 3.

I suspect more than 190 were built since there were 2 distinct models built. The Lightning Clubman (190 allegedly built) with rear sets, solo seat, and Clubman bars, the Lightning (unknown # built) with dual seat, standard bars, and standard foot pegs. Both were based on the US spec Lightning Rocket with high compression pistons and a CR gearbox. The CR box also shows up in some Hornets and some US spec LR’s. I believe some CR LR’s ended up in Oz as well. Most of the “Lightnings” I have seen evidence of are in Oz.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
1 member likes this: Gary E
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813916 06/25/20 11:49 am
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The old comment of: a Clubman has a DC Motor (Lightning = D, close ratio box =C) but a DC motor doesn't make it a Lightning clubman.

Aren't Clubmans supposed to have 10:1 compression also? whereas the stock Lightning is 9:1.

weren't these bikes built for homologation purposes like the A70 (meaning a production run of at least 200 had to be built?)

I know of 2 genuine Clubmans, I'm also sure that neither are for sale.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813926 06/25/20 12:21 pm
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Again according to RB Specs appendix.
CR options for A65s R/ L/ /LC 63- 65
9 :1 with the 64 R having an 11:1 option one year only, I can guess why that was deleted later.

65 -70 A65 T / L /

CR options 9 :1 with 10.5 :1 for SpitsMk 2 and Hornets.

66 -70/2 Spit Mk 3, Spit Mk 4 , Firebird, A70
all 10:1 except A70 9:1

70 -73?
A65 T , L, FS
all 9:1
with 7.5 :1 Low comp options.

What may have given the64 R/ 65 LC a better motor was the carb choice, twin , 389s with 1 1/8" chokes, the 66 L and H got 389/689 with 1 5 /32" chokes.its only a 1/32 difference , but the smaller carbs may have been more efficient?

Interestingly RB states the LC got a reversed cam plate to keep the gear change pattern with the reversed pedal. This was the same year the gear teeth form was altered.
" The most potent was the LC whose engine produced 51 [email protected],750 rpm " not sure why its 3 HP up on the L
since motor specs are the same, cams , CR etc.probably marketing propaganda. I dont think its the siamese pipe, IME they restrict top end.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 06/25/20 12:34 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813933 06/25/20 1:40 pm
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I'm guessing the RB books are probably decent for standard Lightning info, but seems like there is no single authority on Clubmans. Glad to have the collective knowledge here to mine as needed.

Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813937 06/25/20 2:01 pm
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Workshop manual top trumps them all. Roy Bacon's books are good for the pictures but thats about it in my opinion.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

1 member likes this: gavin eisler
Re: Clubman resources?
Dennis Yurcik #813968 06/25/20 6:06 pm
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Originally Posted by Dennis Yurcik
I'm guessing the RB books are probably decent for standard Lightning info, but seems like there is no single authority on Clubmans. Glad to have the collective knowledge here to mine as needed.

Rich B is the authority on Lightning Clubman's.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
1 member likes this: Rich B
Re: Clubman resources?
Gary E #814144 06/27/20 12:51 am
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 22
Britbike forum member
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Britbike forum member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 22
Rich B is the authority on Lightning Clubman's.[/quote]

Noted. ;-)

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