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Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #823924 09/15/20 8:56 pm
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Another 2-3 hours of work and a 35 mile ride. No real difference - - still drops oil in spots after the ride. But I had a great ride over some nice 40-60 mph coast roads. Here are a couple taken in Argyle of the "little" fishing boats the poor fishermen have these days.[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Other Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 09/15/20 8:57 pm.

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Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #823928 09/15/20 9:17 pm
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I've got a similar small oil drip which seems to come from somewhere around the gearbox sprocket and stops when the bike engine is stopped.

My current thinking on the source of this leak is that it's one of the following:-
- breather oil being vented onto the chain and excess dripping to the ground
- excess chaincase pressure being vented from the hopefully blocked chain oiler, or alternatly from the oil seal in the sprocket cover trap door.
- possibly gearbox oil venting on to the gearbox sprocket, this may happen if the gearbox sprocket oil seal is loose or gearbox is overfull

I plan to fit a chaincase inspection cover with a tiny breather hole, hopefully this should relieve any excess pressure and stop leaks. If it doesnt I will know to look elsewhere.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #823965 09/16/20 6:57 am
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Gunner the inspection caps on the PCC should have little holes in them anyway (in the breather one) one of them should have a little baffle plate on the inside and a hole as seen from the outside, the baffle plate isn’t really required, I’ve never seen any oil from there.


Koncretekid (Tom) Nova Scotia looks a nice place to visit.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824078 09/17/20 11:57 am
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The alternator wires can leak oil if not sealed well. My A65 breaths through the primary case only and the chain lasts well and I don't need to check the oil. I have no breathers in the caps. Anything more than an idle the breather hose sucks.


mark
Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
Allan G #824091 09/17/20 4:59 pm
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[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Yesterday after replacing Orings on the oil pipe union, replacing the main oil supply hose, adjusting the clutch, and replacing the fork oil with 30W (lawn mower motor oil was the only non-multi grade oil I could find), I headed northeast to Digby, N.S., home of the Wharf Rat Rally which would have taken place on Labor Day weekend - - cancelled this year.) I took the inland route via route 340 and intended to return by the coast road. But the wind had picked up, remnants of whatever the last hurricane was, and I had to return by the same inland route or get blown into the bay or the woods.

This photo taken in town at the public wharf.

I got home, 132 miles later, and parked the bike for an hour to view this: [Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

The worst part is the oil on the rear tire, even in the high shoulder rim, as well as on the tire. Maybe I'm being too critical after 132 miles at speeds up to 65 mph, but still not nice.

The good news is that there is no indication of oil any where on the top end as can be seen in the next two photos.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Today I tweaked all the hoses connections again and removed and added a smear of RTV silicon to the Orings on the oil pipe union connections. I also drained (using the drain plug) and replaced the ATF primary oil; I got about 110 ml of oil out of the 140 I put in, so not bad considering I had the primary cover off yesterday before I refilled. Gear oil seems to just at the tip of the dip stick, and motor oil may be down 1/4 pint.


Originally Posted by Allan G
Gunner the inspection caps on the PCC should have little holes in them anyway (in the breather one) one of them should have a little baffle plate on the inside and a hole as seen from the outside, the baffle plate isn’t really required, I’ve never seen any oil from there.


Koncretekid (Tom) Nova Scotia looks a nice place to visit.

Allan, I have vented inspection caps on my primary and am using ATF so should be able to verify any leakage from that source. I'm pretty sure it is motor oil, but can't tell from where.

I also did a leak-down test today and although the secondary gauge is not the correct one, it's just a 300 psi gauge, both gauges stayed near 100 psi for the test and the leakage (blow-by or head gasket) was very little. If there is leakage, the second gauge should have dropped which it did not.

As for Nova Scotia being a nice place to visit, I thought so too, 47 years ago, and I'm still here. Incidentally, virtually no Covid here so we feel pretty safe, as well.

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 09/17/20 5:05 pm.

Life's uncertain - go fast now!
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Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824095 09/17/20 5:39 pm
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This amount of oil leaked from my former BSA after 200 km trip I'd consider normal. Remember oil blown from the engine through a breather accumulates on the bottom of the bike and central stand during all this time and leaks from there during a stop.

Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824097 09/17/20 6:22 pm
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Since you have the union on the breather I doubt that’s your problem.

When I ran a wet clutch it used to loose half of its primary oil then not loose any more, it’d also blacken quickly from the tensioner blade rubber. if you haven’t already block off the breather tube at the back of the primary. If it still leaks check the oil seal and the sleeve tube that’s pushed into the output gear.

... and as mark says, alternator wiring grommet.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824101 09/17/20 8:06 pm
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Looks like its leaking a bit more than I would like, so some additional things to check:-
- after a ride wipe your hand under the chaincase, any leaks will be apparant by oil being present under the screw heads.
- to stop the drain and level screws in the chaincase from leaking, a fibre washer under the head works well. Also check the screws arent too long as they may be bottoming or there may be crud at the base of the holes stoping them bottoming.
- looks like you have some kind of long drain bolt fitted on the chaincase, why is this?
- block the chain oiler as Allen suggested, this needs a 1/4 cei bolt about 3/4 inch long and fibre washer screwed in from the inner side.
- check the alternator wires as Mark mentioned, I use silicone to seal the grommet and wire.
- fit a new gasket to the sprocket trap door and oil seal.
- maybe the oil is from the gearbox and you need a new gearbox oil seal, I use a gearbox output bearing with one rubber seal plus the sprocket seal.

Its telling that both the primary and engine oil have dropped, I believe that crankcase pressure and oil can get into the primary drive via the drive side bearing despite a seal being present, so it could be that the chaincase is now partially full of engine oil hence the confusion.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
gunner #824103 09/17/20 8:26 pm
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Originally Posted by gunner
.
- looks like you have some kind of long drain bolt fitted on the chaincase, why is this?
- block the chain oiler as Allen suggested, this needs a 1/4 cei bolt about 3/4 inch long and fibre washer screwed in from the inner side.
- check the alternator wires as Mark mentioned, I use silicone to seal the grommet and wire.
- fit a new gasket to the sprocket trap door and oil seal.
- maybe the oil is from the gearbox and you need a new gearbox oil seal, I use a gearbox output bearing with one rubber seal plus the sprocket seal.

Its telling that both the primary and engine oil have dropped, I believe that crankcase pressure and oil can get into the primary drive via the drive side bearing despite a seal being present, so it could be that the chaincase is now partially full of engine oil hence the confusion.

Looks like a later chaincase with the seperate level / drain screws.

The oil in the wheel rim well is not a good sign.
What the others said about oil seals, chain oilers and vented primary.
The stock inspection screws are not vented, I think it was the singles that used them, they fit and work, essential if you blank off the chain oiler.
I just drill a wee hole in the upper cap, after a thrashing it shows signs of oil.
I accept a certain amount of oil after a spirited run, over 70 I can guarantee it, but its not that scattered, and doesnt make the wheel well.

for the oil union, I tried X seals from a chain, didnae work, then I checked it for flatness, of course it was not true, filed it flat, fitted O rings , all good.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
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Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824237 09/19/20 9:09 pm
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[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Rode to Port Maitland beach today about 10 miles from home, but there was nobody there! Kinda cool with a hurricane on the way.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Another dozen miles up-the-line to Mavillette Beach with Cape St. Mary's in the background. Both beaches are quite nice in the summer.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

So after the 45 mile ride, this is what lands on the floor after an hour or so. There is also a wet spot on the other side because I forgot to turn off the gas and the right float was leaking. I think I'm done for now.

As for all the above suggestions, the thing that looks like a drain is my primary chain adjustment bolt, Gunner. And yes, I have the chain oiler blocked off, all new gaskets and seals, a new 21 tooth drive sprocket (don't know how you can live without it unless you ride in a city), the alternator wires and the adjustment bolt are sealed with RTV silicon, and I made a new copper washer for the primary drain screw. The new primary cover gasket is composite with the word "Victor" printed on it. It's still weeping in spite of my having glass sanded the cover and spot faced all the screw seats. I think I'll return to a more standard primary gasket.

It's a pleasure to ride with the 21 tooth drive sprocket up to 80 mph. I don't have a working tachometer so I don't know the rpm, but it sounds great with the 2 into 1 exhaust and the Goldie muffler. The clubman riding position with the clubman bars and big tank feels right, but after the 132 mile ride the other day in high winds, my neck and shoulder were aching. Nothing that a couple of Advil and a cold beer didn't cure.

Ride 'em while you can!

Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 09/19/20 9:15 pm.

Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824238 09/19/20 9:30 pm
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Sounds like you have mostly come to grips with the slightly weepy old girl. Before I started with the racing thing my Hornet was set up much like your bike. Siamese with Goldie muffler and a 20 tooth. The pipe had transformed the behavior dramaticallly. Lots of grunt from lower down compared to the scrambler pipes. I was happy to have standard ergonomics and rode it all over the place. Have fun !

Re: A65 problem with rings sealing
koncretekid #824241 09/19/20 10:03 pm
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Looks like you have sorted out the leak and the spot showing under the sprocket is about the same as I get following a similar ride.

Great looking bike enjoy smile


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
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