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Pushrod tubes
#809455 05/19/20 12:59 pm
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connrod Offline OP
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Are there 2 different tubes for the pushrods, or are they the same? It seems both of my pushrod tubes fit into the recess on the exhaust side of my 69 head, but do not fit in the intake side.

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Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #809461 05/19/20 1:06 pm
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Do you know what sort of bike it is?


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Pushrod tubes
triton thrasher #809556 05/20/20 5:26 am
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connrod Offline OP
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68/69 triumph t120. The bottom end is 68, the head is 69

Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #809572 05/20/20 10:41 am
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For both 68 and 69 the tubes are the same for inlet and exhaust, the 68 and 69 tubes are not the same at the top, the 69 are castellated and the 68 are smooth.

At the risk of repeating myself for a 69 head you need 69 tubes and 69 tappet blocks.

Download the parts books for 68 and 69 and compare, also download the workshop manual.

Plenty of info on this issue of Triumphs constant changes to seal the infernal tubes.

http://vintagebikemagazine.com/technical-articles/push-rod-tubes/

Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #809603 05/20/20 2:08 pm
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im always bemused as to why triumph didn't just bite the bullet nd recast the jugs to enclose the pushrods.

all the fussing they went through looking for quick fixes cost them more in time , trouble, and money than would have been involved in just making the cylinders close them in in front and back.

but then i think, you know, if i was interested in a motorcycle that made sense id be riding hondas and throwing them away every few years.

Last edited by kevin; 05/20/20 2:09 pm.

every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #809755 05/21/20 4:07 am
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Amen, on both counts.

Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #809936 05/22/20 7:18 pm
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If they cast the pushrod tubes as part of the cylinder block it would have lost the chrome pillars front and back. Probably a significant design detail. At the same time they could have recast the head with the rockerboxes integral as was done on the Rickman head and maybe redesigned the ports for better flow.

Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #809947 05/22/20 9:56 pm
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and we could have called it a norton


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: Pushrod tubes
DMadigan #810033 05/23/20 8:25 pm
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Originally Posted by DMadigan
If they cast the pushrod tubes as part of the cylinder block it would have lost the chrome pillars front and back. Probably a significant design detail. At the same time they could have recast the head with the rockerboxes integral as was done on the Rickman head and maybe redesigned the ports for better flow.

I really appreciate the cast-in rocker stanchions and internal pushrods in my A65, but there is a down-side to this design: In addition to the cylinder bores, the head gasket spans the pushrod tunnel and the oil drain passages from the exhaust valve wells, making it much more prone to leaking oil than a Triumph head gasket, which only encompasses the combustion chambers. Having said that, I still much prefer dealing with a BSA upper engine.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #810081 05/24/20 7:23 am
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^^AND the BSA lower end, too, for me.

Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #810084 05/24/20 8:16 am
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From and engineering standpoint, Triumph really screwed the pooch when they went to the alloy head. Iron heads rule.
I've had my top end together on my 6T for about 12 years now and it still doesn't leak oil. That's with cardboard top push rod tube seals....and external drains. Don't tell me it was for performance either as all the land speed records were set with the lowly 6t pre unit motors with iron heads until the sixties.
Now, if I could just get a few more ponies out of my old 'bird.
Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Pushrod tubes
leon bee #810116 05/24/20 3:42 pm
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Originally Posted by leon bee
^^AND the BSA lower end, too, for me.
Must be why y'all spend so much money to make it more like a Triumph bottom end.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Pushrod tubes
DavidP #810148 05/24/20 6:37 pm
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Originally Posted by DavidP
Originally Posted by leon bee
^^AND the BSA lower end, too, for me.
Must be why y'all spend so much money to make it more like a Triumph bottom end.

Oh good, I haven't seen a good pissing war in a while...

Ok, I have to admit, if you're lucky enough to not have any bearing journal wear or other non-typical damage, you can rebuild a Triumph lower without doing any machining. And the piston-type oil pump is not prone to wet-sumping.

On the other hand, the tranny, shift and kicker mechanisms and surrounding attachments and covers are much simpler and more straightforward on a BSA, e,g,, running clearances are not affected by gasket thickness! It's easier to set valve timing too (but that's kind of cheating because there's only one camshaft).

And David, not all of us beezers go for the TS roller bearing conversion.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Pushrod tubes
Mark Z #810205 05/25/20 5:35 am
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Originally Posted by Mark Z
On the other hand, the tranny, shift and kicker mechanisms and surrounding attachments and covers are much simpler and more straightforward on a BSA, e,g,, running clearances are not affected by gasket thickness! It's easier to set valve timing too (but that's kind of cheating because there's only one camshaft).
Sounds like a man who has never had to attach a BSA kick-start spring, or play around with the shifter spring just to get all the gears.
At least it's just the gasket on a Triumph. If one buys a quality set it will be the correct thickness. Don't have to pull the whole thing apart to change the thrust washer to get, "just perceptible," end float. And, good luck finding anything but the stock thickness of that washer.
Plus I don't need to disturb the points or EI pickup just to get into the gearbox. And, I don't need to disturb the gearbox just to get to the timing gears.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #810232 05/25/20 2:11 pm
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Presumably you have not worked on a modern horizontal split case engine where you disturb everything to do any of that besides having to drain the coolant and take the motor out of the frame.

Re: Pushrod tubes
DavidP #810245 05/25/20 4:59 pm
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Originally Posted by DMadigan
Presumably you have not worked on a modern horizontal split case engine where you disturb everything to do any of that besides having to drain the coolant and take the motor out of the frame.

Granted, but we were just bantering BSA vs. Triumph. I recently commented in another venue that it took two of us an hour and a half to get the carburetors off a Honda Nighthawk, and another hour and a half to get them back on. And someone told me recently that you have to pull the engine on a Honda Goldwing to change the alternator.

Originally Posted by DavidP
Sounds like a man who has never had to attach a BSA kick-start spring, or play around with the shifter spring just to get all the gears.
At least it's just the gasket on a Triumph. If one buys a quality set it will be the correct thickness. Don't have to pull the whole thing apart to change the thrust washer to get, "just perceptible," end float. And, good luck finding anything but the stock thickness of that washer.
Plus I don't need to disturb the points or EI pickup just to get into the gearbox. And, I don't need to disturb the gearbox just to get to the timing gears.

Touche! (Although I got the kickstart spring thing sussed.)


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #810260 05/25/20 6:26 pm
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With the old 4-cylinder Gold Wings, you not only have to pull then engine out of the bike to change the alternator,
an owner of a restored one told me you have to also pull then engine apart to do it.

I am not a robot.

Re: Pushrod tubes
DMadigan #810307 05/26/20 1:02 am
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Originally Posted by DMadigan
Presumably you have not worked on a modern horizontal split case engine where you disturb everything to do any of that besides having to drain the coolant and take the motor out of the frame.
I've only had the pleasure of doing the top end on those bikes. It's more than enough trouble just changing the spark plugs on an Oriental 4 cylinder.
I've been through all the stuff that must come off of the K just to change tires and grease the splines on the drive shaft. I hope to sell that bike before anything major goes wrong.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Pushrod tubes
connrod #810334 05/26/20 10:29 am
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Last year someone told me "you can't fix that (my Kawasaki ZZR1400) at the roadside" I replied "I don't need to, it's reliable"


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
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Greeves 360
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Re: Pushrod tubes
Andy Higham #810355 05/26/20 3:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Andy Higham
Last year someone told me "you can't fix that (my Kawasaki ZZR1400) at the roadside" I replied "I don't need to, it's reliable"

Ah yes, the old serviceability vs. reliability conundrum.

I didn't write this up, but last Thursday, I got a flat rear tire on my BSA about twenty miles from home. I didn't have a spare tube on me, nor the tools to remove the wheel, nor the tools to mount the tire, so I called a neighbor of mine to get my truck and ramp from my house and come and get me. I'd never make it in the ISDT.

Perhaps a better example is, last year, during a ride, my ignition coil crapped out. This could happen on any motorcycle, and who carries a spare ignition coil?

My point is, in practical terms, there are many things that can't be fixed at the roadside, no matter how serviceable OR reliable your bike is.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.

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