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Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
#809228 05/17/20 9:46 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 37
qbeanie Offline OP
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My 1967 A65 oil pump is leaking from the body at a joint. I recently fitted a new spring and ball check and found the leak while testing the pump installed on the bike. The leak is a constant drip from just the static head of the oil tank. When the pump is operated via the spindle, the leak increases dramatically. Can anyone recommend a shop to overhaul the pump in the United States? Thanks!

Last edited by qbeanie; 05/18/20 3:50 pm. Reason: Removed shop from title
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Re: Shop Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809240 05/17/20 11:51 pm
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Talk to these guys and see what they recommend. Well known BSA specialists.
https://www.shopevengineering.com/


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
Re: Shop Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809304 05/18/20 3:19 pm
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Thanks. They suggested finding D, DD, or cast iron pump. They prefer not to work on the alloy body pumps. My new question is to those who have disassembled the alloy body pumps. If the body segment faces are flat and hylomar is applied the surfaces, will the body seal or am i wasting my time?

Re: Shop Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809319 05/18/20 4:51 pm
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All that would happen is you would pump hylomar around your engine.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Shop Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809335 05/18/20 6:32 pm
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The factory used shellac as a sealer, still available, pretty cheap, buy flakes, dissolve in methylated spirits ( meths in UK).
The alloy bodies are easy to distort, also the joint face on the cases tends to pull up around the mounting studs, the factory manual warns about checking this. Remove mounting studs, clean face spotless, apply a light blue, offer up pump and squirm it, read the blue, odds are there will be two islands around the stud threads, scrape, re blue, test , repeat till happy. Set aside a quiet cuppla hours to do this, soothing music will help.

I have played around with both types of pump alloy and iron, my experience is that the timing of the gears relative to each other is a very sensitive part of the rebuild, if you can possibly mark them in such away they go back exactly as they came out your life will be a lot easier. However, this is easier said than done, I always end up marching one tooth at a time till I get the freest option, V time consuming.
If an alloy body is distorted, I dunno, I have heard of folk bullying them straight between two very thick flat things, lapping down a distorted body will not go well, you may end up with flat ends and squinty chambers.

Otherwise a flat diamond lap 400 grit will do well for lapping bodies true and end plates clean.
Last pump I did I took over a thou of each side of the body to lose end float in the gears, tediously checking end float evry so often till drag was just perceptible.. Start to finish probably took 2 days.
New pumps made to far tighter tolerances are out there if your time is precious.

When dismantled and cleaned you will see wear every where , end plates will be scored in wee circles, the gear chambers will show tracks and the teeth will be polished, the gears tend to wear more on the OD so that flat ends are no longer flat.
Theres not much to be done about chamber wear, but , gear ends can be lapped flat.
if you are careful and like a challenge good results will follow.
When the refurb work/time is considered a new spiffy SRM pump seems like a very good thing.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 05/18/20 6:54 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809350 05/18/20 7:47 pm
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I agree with what Gavin has just written and this has been similar to my own experience on various BSA's and other bikes. I doubt you will find a workshop willing to rebuild the pump for a sensible price and given that the alloy pump isnt that good anyway you would probably be better off buying a new SRM pump.

Some points to note if you do decide to try yourself:-
- the alloy bodies distort, causing weeps from the top and end plate. If you try and remove distortion from the body by lapping etc. then its likely the gears will then be too thick, causing the pump to lock up when the body is assembled. No easy fix here without careful attention to detail.
- check for metal chips embedded in the gears, this can also cause rough running of the pump.
- make sure you use the right spring and ball behind the pump. It;s quite hard to distinguish between the right spring vs. some used on other BSA's e.g. A10's. I've seen some which look like they have been taken from a ball point pen and obviously not strong enough.
- check the pump gasket carefully, some have too small a hole where the spring and ball go, do a trial fit and check hole alignment

Regarding the Shellac gasket sealant, I've never tried it between the oil pump top/end flanges. However a few weeks ago, I noticed Permatex sell an 'Indian Shellac' gasket compound see This Link, but I'm not sure this is the same as BSA used. Anyway I bought a small bottle and noted it takes a few days to cure (not on an oil pump mind), so if you did use it leave it a while before running the bike.

Last edited by gunner; 05/18/20 7:48 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809351 05/18/20 7:54 pm
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As Gavin said if you don't reassemble the gears into the exact position they were originally the pump will bind. I tried it without marking them and never did get it right again. Ended up buying an SRM pump. They are not cheap but are far superior to the old pumps. If the bike is to be a keeper it can be money well spent.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809355 05/18/20 8:21 pm
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Thanks guys!. I just purchased a SRM pump as I don't want to gamble on a problematic pump that may fail due even after taking the painstaking effort to flatten and true the surfaces of the soft alloy body. I would rather spend the time riding smile

Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809425 05/19/20 3:34 am
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Welseal is the sealant used on the original pumps. A smear on flat joint surfaces is all that's needed.
Takes an hour or so to go off after application.
Beezer used the gear quite extensively.
Lightly counter sink the stud holes before fitting the new pump, SRM supply allen bolts with their pumps,
this makes assembly easier as you don't have to wind the worm gear on as the pump is fitted.
Don't go mad doing it up and personally i think the use of shake proof washers is not a bad idea.



BTW
I'll give you a fiver for your old one if you like, i've never had one i couldn't recover to a satisfactory state.
Just time and patience.

Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809442 05/19/20 9:09 am
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I use these on holes to remove the raised section on pumps cases and in fact every hole I drill.

[Linked Image from images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com]

Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809730 05/21/20 1:36 am
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Which one of those bits do you use to dress the seat for the anti-drain ball?

qbeanie: Inspect the oil pump gasket. It is not uncommon for the hole at the spot where the ball goes to be cut slightly small. This can interfere with the operation of the anti-drain valve.
And remember, the nuts tighten to only 10 lb-ft.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Recommendation for A65 Oil Pump Overhaul
qbeanie #809778 05/21/20 9:09 am
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I'm interested in getting the anti-drain ball seat working properly as I feel it needs improvement, the pump hole may not be completely round and the ball may not seat accurately, therefore leaks may occur. This area could be improved in several ways as follows:-

- the hole and ball could be lapped with grinding paste to ensure a good seal. This is tricky to do as its hard to hold the ball. I found that I could glue the ball onto an old socket cap head and then had much more control.

- another option is to counterbore the oil pump hole so that an O ring can be fitted. This would mean that the steel ball then seats on the O ring which should provide a better seal.

- I've seen some 1/4 inch (6.4mm) nitrile balls which could be used instead of the steel ball. I imagine that the nitrile ball would seal better against the pump hole than a steel ball

Also worth checking you have the correct spring behind the ball, buy one from a reputable supplier, it should be 20.6mm free length.

Just my tuppence worth.

Last edited by gunner; 05/21/20 9:10 am.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando

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