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#803561 03/31/20 7:11 pm
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I missed my opportunity to own a Goldstar many years ago. I gave all the reasons I couldn't buy it just like I did with the 57 Corvette I let slip through my fingers. Years later I found a 71 b50ss basket case for $250 that I rebuilt and restored it to a nice rider. I did a little tuning work on the head and it runs right strong. I would like to hear discussion from someone that has owned them both. If this topic has been covered before perhaps you can provide a link.

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I don’t remember this coming up before.....

I have raced a Rigid frame Gold Star and B50 (ice and flat track). I own a Gold Star and have ridden B50’s on the street.

The B50 is lighter and smaller. And, in their own right, are a fun bike. The GS was a good ice racer, but I think the B50 was easier to ride fast.

On the road, no doubt, the right rider on a good B50 probably can stay in front of a GS. But hands down, for quick road rides, the Gold Star is a better bike. The engine is a torque monster, the chassis is not as nimble, but is more stable. You can surprise yourself how quickly you can cover ground with a Gold Star. I also find the Gold Star more comfortable to ride

Then you get into all of the different cams, carbs, gearing, etc. that is still not hard to find for a Gold Star, and you can tune the bike to what you want it to be.

And at the end of the day, a Gold Star has those classic looks that very few bikes have ever achieved.


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Rich,
Well said! When we look back to another time, looks are always important. In many ways we are not unlike artists who appreciate great works of the past. The Goldie is surely in that category. I missed my opportunity and regret it..

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Originally Posted by Rich B
On the road, no doubt, the right rider on a good B50 probably can stay in front of a GS. But hands down, for quick road rides, the Gold Star is a better bike. The engine is a torque monster, the chassis is not as nimble, but is more stable. You can surprise yourself how quickly you can cover ground with a Gold Star. I also find the Gold Star more comfortable to ride
The B50 has a quite high compression ratio and very little flywheel effect.
I have the impression that the B50MX was designed first, to try to compete with the European 2-stroke MX nachines. Then the B50T and B60SS were slightly detuned MXs with a bit of road equipment. The MX is a fun off-roader, but would be rather less so as a road bike.

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I know that I am not completely on the mark here but I do have and ride a B44SS and a DBD. The B44 is a very attractive and fun bike to ride, especially on back roads where the speeds are limited to 60 or less. On the highway she is a buzz bomb and a bit flighty. This does not detract from the delight of riding this piece of history.
On the other hand, the GS is a bit heavier and slower handling but steady as a rock at any speed. I have had a 50 year love affair with this bike and have overhauled it several times. It runs like a top but could use some love now. I just have to get motivated. I think my bike would be called the 'Road Racer' and is very comfortable to ride.
These days I think the consideration of riding and enjoying a classic single would be price. The B50/B44 can deliver the experience and are affordable where the GS has achieved 'collector' status and is harder to obtain. I bought mine for $800 in 1969 and over the years have ridden it all over including eastern Ohio from Toronto to Marrietta and beyond. I could go on but will spare you all. Cheers, PRT

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The B50 is great fun for a short time. Long distances will hurt as the vibration takes its toll and taller riders will feel cramped.
The Gold star is physically larger


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I have a B44 Shooting Star and my experience echo's what Pushrod Tom mentions, the bikes are good on B type roads and handle reasonably well together with good performance with bursts up to around 70mph. On A-roads where the average speed is higher, the B44 struggles to keep up with sustained speeds of 70mph and above, additionally, at these speeds, the handling feels twitchy and makes me feel vulnerable. For these reasons I tend to keep to B roads where there is less traffic and speed is not such an issue. I delight in finding steep hills which the B44 takes in its stride, easily charging up using the broad band of torque.

I've often wondered how the DBD and earlier bikes compare. I can imagine that they have better high speed handling and more tuneable engines, so my long term aim is to probably build some kind of Gold Star replica to add to my collection.


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The B25, B44 and B50 are country road cruisers. They are at home at 45 mph to 60 mph. The B50,, a really stretched out 250, can hang with the twins but they are from a time when motorcycling was different. I have had a lifetime of fun with these old bikes. We ride em and fixem. How many have ever even changed a tire on a modern bike let alone rebuilt one.

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Originally Posted by gunner
On A-roads where the average speed is higher, the B44 struggles to keep up with sustained speeds of 70mph and above, additionally, at these speeds, the handling feels twitchy and makes me feel vulnerable.

You can gear the B44 up using a 19 tooth engine sprocket and the smallest rear sprocket. That will keep the revs down.

To get the low end grunt back fit a B44GP or B50MX cam, this is the Goldstar scramble cam grind.

On the handling twitchiness from the short wheel base you can get rid of the worn out soft silentbloc bushes and either go for solid bronze bushes or needle rollers, this also gets rid of the whitelining. At the front end the damping is inadequate especially over flat even roads as the damper valve has to move 1/4" when changing from compression to rebound damping and back again. Whilst the valve is moving there is no damping. Separate the damping to one in each leg and the 1/4" dead zone disappears giving a much more planted feel on fast flat roads.

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The Goldstar is a great open roads bike but a complete pain around town. Fitting a 5 speed gearbox transforms it into a bike that is a pleasure to ride anywhere


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Quote
You can gear the B44 up using a 19 tooth engine sprocket and the smallest rear sprocket. That will keep the revs down.

To get the low end grunt back fit a B44GP or B50MX cam, this is the Goldstar scramble cam grind.

On the handling twitchiness from the short wheel base you can get rid of the worn out soft silentbloc bushes and either go for solid bronze bushes or needle rollers, this also gets rid of the whitelining. At the front end the damping is inadequate especially over flat even roads as the damper valve has to move 1/4" when changing from compression to rebound damping and back again. Whilst the valve is moving there is no damping. Separate the damping to one in each leg and the 1/4" dead zone disappears giving a much more planted feel on fast flat roads.

Thanks Kommando, its been over 10 years since I built my B44 from spares, but from memory I think I'm using 19/47 sprockets which makes riding in town a pain but allows comfortable cruising at 60mph. I suspect the power output isn't as high as it could be, maybe fitting a high comp piston 10:1 piston would help together with the GP or MX cam as suggested. I'm using a 28mm JRC carb which works well but I think a slightly larger carb would be better, maybe a 32mm Concentric or Mikuni would help together with bigger valves.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on the suspension mods, any ideas where I can get details on the fork damper upgrade?


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Late last year, Magnetoman and I spent a few days riding all three of his Gold Stars, a Clubman, a BB, and a Catalina, in the hills around Tucson, Arizona. All three were wonderful. The Clubman is a leggy highway machine, with great handling. The BB is a gentleman's bike, easy and forgiving to ride. But my favorite was the Catalina. The scrambler cams, the gearing, all made it a perfect bike for riding around twisty mountain roads. Thanks to MM's gearing, (he posted a separate account of building a gearbox for the Catalina) it never felt too buzzy on the highway, even if it wasn't as comfortable at speed as the Clubman/

I have my own biases. I love dirt bikes, and I generally love the way they feel on the road. The Catalina was right in my personal sweet spot for abike, and I suspect the B44 would be similar.

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As NYBSAGUY has pointed out, "Gold Star" covers a wide range.
My experience of Gold Stars is limited to a short ride on a DB32GS which was very highly tuned and intractable, and a half day of twisty mountain roads, dirt roads, highway and suburban streets on a more softly tuned BB34GS which I would love to have taken home with me if the owner hadn't noticed.

B44s and B50s are similarly chalk and cheese. The B44VS is very tractable, with extremely light steering, to the point that it's twitchy on the road. The B50MX is more a case of hang on and hope. Very highly tuned, picks up revs fast and will stall even faster if you aren't careful when trying to potter around. The steering is slower and feels more steady than the B44, but is higher in the saddle.

They have different strengths and weaknesses, but they're all fun to ride.

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Shane: Your points are interesting. I only have experience with the B44VS and the DBD scrambler, no experience with any B50.

Given that the B44VS and the B50 have quite different frames and forks I would think that the handling would different so I can only imagine what it would be like to ride the B50

I agree with everything you have said about the B44VS but would add that it does run out of steam as you go up through the gears. it is not a high speed machine. So how much more power than the B44VS does the B50 have?

The Gold Stars are fine handling bikes and the only weakness would be the one dampening forks. In rough going the forks can sort of just give up. Even the Victor rod damper forks are better. How good are the B50 forks? On the plus side the GS engine in most setups is a strong engine with a decently wide torque band. How much can be changed in the tuning of the B50?

If we are comparing the B50MX and the DBD scrambler, both dirt bikes, the MX is listed at 240 lbs and the GS scrambler at 350 lbs. That is quite a difference. When the unit singles came out factory rider Jeff Smith was faster on the unit 350 than on the GS, even though in his mind it was the other way around. With that in mind I would think that the B50MX would be much quicker around a rough course than a GS scrambler. On a smoother fast course the GS would not be much slower if at all. The GS engine just never complains.

The choice for a road bike between a B50SS and a GS roadster it would more about the riders preference. The road B50SS weighs in at 310 lbs and the GS roadster at 380 lbs so the B50 would be easier to manage. As mentioned above the fact that the GS can be tuned for any type of riding would I think allow a rider to create his or her perfect bike.

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Originally Posted by Gordo in Comox
I agree with everything you have said about the B44VS but would add that it does run out of steam as you go up through the gears. it is not a high speed machine. So how much more power than the B44VS does the B50 have?
Claimed power for the B50MX is similar to a Catalina. The B44 is a lot better than the B50MX at low engine speeds, though.

Originally Posted by Gordo in Comox
The Gold Stars are fine handling bikes and the only weakness would be the one dampening forks. In rough going the forks can sort of just give up. Even the Victor rod damper forks are better. How good are the B50 forks? On the plus side the GS engine in most setups is a strong engine with a decently wide torque band. How much can be changed in the tuning of the B50?
The late forks as used on the OIF bikes are very effective. Not having raced off-road with early and late forks, I can't compare in those conditions. The later forks seem to be more compliant on the road, though.
The big limitation of the B50 engine is the quite light flywheel, which limits low speed tractability. They seem to be able to be tuned to churn out a lot of peak power, as can be seen from some of Ed V's and Stan's race bikes. At the other extreme, I doubt one could be used as the basis for a trials plonker.

Originally Posted by Gordo in Comox
The choice for a road bike between a B50SS and a GS roadster it would more about the riders preference. The road B50SS weighs in at 310 lbs and the GS roadster at 380 lbs so the B50 would be easier to manage. As mentioned above the fact that the GS can be tuned for any type of riding would I think allow a rider to create his or her perfect bike.

Gordo
I suspect the Gold Star would be a more pleasant road bike, short of road race tune. B50s and B25s are much more your typical 1970s trail bikes - light, narrow and high. Even with a bigger fuel tank and more road oriented handle bars, they'd still be trail bikes at heart.
The B50 engine in a more road-oriented rolling chassis could have been an excellent road machine, but the focus at the time was on superbikes.
BSA's target markets seemed to be off-road for the singles, general street riding for the twins and fast touring for the triples.

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I have ridden B44’s & B50’s on the road as well as the Gold Star. The unit singles are light decent handling road bikes. The Gold Star’s weight is deceptive. A GS carries its weight very low, so it feels and responds like it is a lighter bike.

I find the GS to be better for riding any distance. It is such a well balanced, easy to ride bike. The longer wheel base gives a better ride. And with scrambler cams, the engine is a torque monster where you need it. Real world speeds on today’s roads. And the GS is capable of being ridden on today’s roads. I find it to be deceptively fast. You are going faster than you think you are.

I can’t say that about any unit single I have ridden.

The Dow damper rods make the forks decent. And with some work, the brakes are not bad, especially the rear.

As a road bike, IMO, the GS is superior to any of the unit singles. It is not even close. As an off road bike, the unit single is superior.

But as we know, those lines can get blurred depending on the riders abilities and expectations or how the bike is built.


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Gorde,
B50's were designed to fly, literally , lots of air as the slightly younger riders like to put it.
A frame that is more comfortable standing on than sitting on.
I found my B50 T way too light for easy or comforable city riding, and I was living 3 miles from the Sydney GPO in those days so every ride was a city ride.
As luck would happen the A 65 L needed some serious engine work which I made the big mistake of getting done externally so for a while I had a spare OIF A65 frame.
Pinched the front end off the A65 & put it on the B50 and what a difference it made .
Bike became rideable in city traffic, actually sopped and it was possible to leave a set of lights with both wheels on the ground with a bit of effort.
Can not compare to an GS as I only had a b32 for a very short while 12 years latter & would have been lucky to have ridden it 4 times before I regrettably had to sell it .
I have an aversion to riding other peoples bikes particularly if I am not in a financial position to make good any damage that I may be responsible for so apart from that I did 20 or so very uncomfortable miles on a full Dow DBD34 and the odd round the block on Brians B32 but it was set up for a 5'er and I am feeler short of 6' so again not comfortable.


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All good comments. Rich B put a bit finer focus on my previous points. Highams comments about gearing are about like saying how highly tuned the GS is. There were so many gearbox combos available that it is hard to generalize. My bike. like most of the US road models, has the Std. T box. Except for the wide gap between 2 and 3 it is very well suited for general road use even with higher gearing. Mine shows 65+ mph at 4k for example. My friend Karl had the ultra rare RRT-5 box in his bike and it was perfect! PRT

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Can't believe you can compare a Gold Star to a B50. An ok bike but it does not have the magic of riding a Goldie, especially a well tuned and sorted DBD. A quote from a 1965 Motorcycle Mechanics mag '' an open road and open mega, a good DBD should sort out the best of them'. Though agreed they can be temperemental but the riding experience is poles apart from a B50 though a professionally tuned B50 can be really quick, a.k.a the Mead and Tomkinson raced B50 from the UK. My DBD does 105 mph half throttle at 6,000 revs and accelerates to 115 mph, and slightly downhill 120 mph at 7,000. I know, it;s a good one, had it since 1971, engine no. 5681 [ first engine reg 1961]

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Originally Posted by John Alexander
Can't believe you can compare a Gold Star to a B50. An ok bike but it does not have the magic of riding a Goldie, especially a well tuned and sorted DBD. A quote from a 1965 Motorcycle Mechanics mag '' an open road and open mega, a good DBD should sort out the best of them'. Though agreed they can be temperemental but the riding experience is poles apart from a B50 though a professionally tuned B50 can be really quick, a.k.a the Mead and Tomkinson raced B50 from the UK. My DBD does 105 mph half throttle at 6,000 revs and accelerates to 115 mph, and slightly downhill 120 mph at 7,000. I know, it;s a good one, had it since 1971, engine no. 5681 [ first engine reg 1961]

Well, as you say, part of the difference is "Magic", and that's hard to quantify, measure or prove.

And I'm all for high-performance road Gold Stars (I've ridden RichB's and it will perform with any twin), but if we're doing 105/115/120, then it's .... timing slips or it didn't happen .... confused cool confused

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Maybe it's an age thing, but.. 100mph on my Ducati seems a little excessive. 100mph on a Goldie? Never.

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John A,
Numbers aren't adding up. My B50 with 28/52 (engine to clutch) and 18/52 (gb to rear wheel) calculates to about 85 mph at 6000rpm. You must have exceptionally tall gearing on that GS to make 115 mph at 6000 rpms and that would make for a lot of clutch slipping to get it off the line. I believe my B50 SS can make 85mph maybe even 95 (but I won't be me riding it). 115 mph is over 8000 rpms...prolly not gonna happen..
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Originally Posted by NYBSAGUY
Maybe it's an age thing, but.. 100mph on my Ducati seems a little excessive. 100mph on a Goldie? Never.
Age may be an important factor, but so is geography. Do you have anywhere within 50 miles of you that you could go 100 mph for at least 15 min. with only a small chance of encountering the police? The wild west is full of wide-open spaces where that is possible. That said, 100 mph on a Ducati is one thing but, in my opinion, 100 mph on a Gold Star is mechanical abuse of the machine.

Originally Posted by Mr Mike
My B50 with 28/52 (engine to clutch) and 18/52 (gb to rear wheel) calculates to about 85 mph at 6000rpm.
Both of my DBD Gold Stars have "standard" 21/43 and 19/46 gearing, which gives 0.2017 overall, whereas yours is 7.6% lower at 0.1864. I'll use the value for my Ariel's rear tire because I have it handy, which has 747 turns/mile. This gives 97.2 mph for the Gold Stars and 89.8 mph for your B50, both at 6000 rpm. If the Gold Star's engine were 23 and gearbox 21 it would give 117.7 mph @ 6000 rpm.

For what it's worth, I originally had Catalina gearing on my Catalina (18 engine and 16 gearbox) which gives 70.2 mph @6000 rpm. That might be great for riding in a Barstow to Las Vegas race but even at 50 mph (4275 rpm) it's much too buzzy. So, since I'm not going to enter any off-road races with it, after our 1200-mile ride across Texas a few years ago I replaced the scrambles sprockets with the larger 21 and 19.

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Hi Guys. sorry, engine no. should be 5684, first for 1961 and as for your gearing calculations i have a top gear ratio of 4/75. Engine sprocket 20, rear wheel sprocket 42 and gearbox 19. Look at the gearing combinations in the Gold Star Book. I once fitted ann 18 t sprocket for London town work, 60 mph at 4000 and 105 at 7000, top gear ratio 5,20. !20 mph slipstreaming GSXR 750. Goldie stander DBD gearing from the factory was 4.52 with a 23 engine and 46 rear wheel. too high geared mine is an equivalent to a 22 engine and 46 rear wheel. With a 21 engine and 46 rear wheel would give a top speed of 107 mph and top gear ratio 4.96.My first gear at 7000 is 70, 2nd is approx. 88 and third 105. I can cruise at 90 mph at 5.500. Thanks for your responses, most interesting but i can't see how you can compare a B50 to a Goldie.

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slipstreaming GSXR with a 4.75 top gear ratio

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