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Spring and ball in timing cover #798071 02/11/20 12:36 am
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trevor's Offline OP
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Apologies now for what seems to be a old question, i have removed the timing cover from my 1972 commando engine and found between the oil pump and cover a small spring and ball bearing in the galley that holds the seal, i have found some information on the Britbike forums with some suggestions of this but no conclusions, I do not see the valve on any parts list or workshop manual or remember seeing one in my 850 Mk111 engine, is this a after market up date or something i lost on my 850 build.


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Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798072 02/11/20 1:30 am
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L.A.B. Online Content
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http://www.amr-tucson.com/nortech.html
"Nortec Anti-Wet Sump Upgrade for Norton"


Originally Posted by trevor's
I do not see the valve on any parts list or workshop manual or remember seeing one in my 850 Mk111 engine


The 850 Mk3 would normally have had a spring and plunger (items 41 & 42 in the link, below) as standard instead of a spring and ball.
https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/sho...cover-oil-pump-oil-pressure-relief-valve

Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798073 02/11/20 1:36 am
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htown Online Content
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It's a modification that the previous owner had done. It helps cut down on wet sumping. The timing cover is machined to provide space for the ball and spring. This is the company that does the modification: http://www.amr-tucson.com/nortech.html
When you reassemble the spring goes into the cover first and then the ball. Hold them in place with a stout piece of wire through the oil pressure relief valve opening. Once the cover is mounted pull the wire out so the ball seats against the pump outlet.
Does the pump have an oring on the output instead of the cone shaped rubber washer? You must use this oring as the stock cone shaped washer will no longer seal against the timing cover because of the recess machined into it to hold the ball and spring.
If you have anymore questions contact the owner of AMR. He's a one man operation so it may take him a while to get back to you but he always does.
I've had this mod done on 4 Commandos and can state that it really helps with wet sumping. They may occasionally drain a little bit if you let them sit long enough without riding. My rule of thumb is if oil is present at all on the dipstick I simply start the bike and let the pump clear the excess. Before the mod the bike would completely drain the tank over two days and I would have to remove the sump drain into a clean container and then return it to the tank. Not much fun.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798082 02/11/20 3:49 am
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trevor's Offline OP
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the seal looks like it would have been the cone shape seal that now is a little pressed flat, Thanks for the method of replacement as it was the seal in the cover holding the ball and spring in place in the cover that prevented the loss of both parts, never really gave it any thought on the 850 as oil would start coming back to the tank almost the instant the engine started to run,


Sewell
Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798085 02/11/20 4:11 am
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htown Online Content
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Contact AMR he can send you a new oring.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798109 02/11/20 4:13 pm
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Dave Comeau Offline
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I believe the o-ring is 1/8" x 1/4". That is what i normaly use for the timing cover. The cone shaped gromet gets warped a bit and does not always seal the ball.
I had wondered if the oil pump spigot was machined a touch to make it a hydraulic quality seat for the ball. If not, that would account for some of these conversions still wet sumping.

nortech mod jan 2014

Last edited by Dave Comeau; 02/12/20 10:59 pm. Reason: wrong url

dynodave
BSA 3 1961-1963
Ducati 3 1992-2002
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Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798111 02/11/20 4:33 pm
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kommando Offline
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When I did this mod to the pump I used the 1/8" x 1/4" O ring and also used a ball end mill to shape the oil pump outlet spigot to the curve of the ball. In anticipation of this still not working as steel on steel, which just needs the slightest piece of dirt to leak, I also have alternative material types of ball, from the top left clockwise we have

Steel

Rubber

Torlon (type of plastic with good tolerance to oil and very high strength)

Bronze

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

The objective being using a softer material for the ball will help it conform to the spigot outlet better.

Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798221 02/13/20 1:08 am
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linker48x Offline
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which one worked well? Mine still sumps after this conversion. Whole tank in a week.

Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798234 02/13/20 11:20 am
Joined: Dec 2004
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kommando Offline
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Steel to rubber gives best seal.

There are 3 routes for the oil to drain into the sump.

1. Through the pump and into the sump, this is closed by the ball pressing on the pump outlet.

2. Through the shafts inside the pump from the feed side to the return side and then to sump, this is closed by machining the pump body to take O or X rings which seal the shafts.

3. The timing cover route for excess oil from OPRV. Timing cover needs modifying and a bleed hole in crankcase blocked, this makes it the same as 850 MK3's and pre Commando engines.

Best to do all 3, just doing 1 leaves the other 2 open to leak.

Re: Spring and ball in timing cover [Re: trevor's] #798239 02/13/20 4:27 pm
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htown Online Content
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AMR does the pump oring mod as part of the timing cover deal. The bleed hole mod is something they also offer. My bike with the bleed hole mod doesn't leak at all, the bikes with just the timing cover and pump mods do a bit.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS


Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.

Moderated by  Dave Comeau 

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