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Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
#797464 02/03/20 8:38 pm
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BrettF Offline OP
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Hi folks,

I'm a bit confused as to Trident colours and the "beauty kits" for a given year, were the colours for the bread bins and the repalcement beauty kits "supposed" to be the same.

Were all UK bikes supplied with the Ogle styling or was it mixed up?

Also, I'd read the Ogle design was 20 kg heavier , but can't imagine the beauty kits being 20 kilograms lighter? (well maybe due to the gorgeous ray gun silencers)

Cheers

BMF


3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes: '69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine) + '56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine) + 74 T150 Home model.
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Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797474 02/03/20 10:58 pm
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#irideslow
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The beauty kits we received here contained tank and fenders painted Spring Gold (same color used on 1970 TR6R) with black center strip and gold pinstriping -- not the same as the original T150T hard-to-describe bluish-green.

That's what I recall at least.

HTH ...

... As I recall, there were quite a few "left over" T150Ts at the end of the 1969 sales season, so Triumph sent beauty kits to dealers who had leftovers in stock and they re-titled the bikes as 1970 models. I do recall heaps of T150T parts, tinware, ray-guns and such that got tucked away in a dark storage area, probably made it into the scrap metal barrel at some point.

The beauty kit parts came wrapped in paper and packed in excelsior in wood crates.

Last edited by kurt fischer; 02/04/20 1:03 pm.

Kurt

-- Don't believe everything you think.
Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797494 02/04/20 4:08 am
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When the first Tridents were introduced all of them in the UK and US markets had the breadbin gas tank, extended side covers and rayguns.
All were in a green called aquamarine (see photo attached---the gas tank, side covers and fenders are original paint).
When this variant went down like a lead balloon in US (doesn't look like a proper Triumph) the beauty kit was produced and initially was supplied as a kit to US dealers to convert the breadbin Trident into something that looked like a "proper Triumph". The beauty kit gas tank color was "Spring Green" as Kurt describes--- a quite different color from the aquamarine.
The new supplies into US were fitted with the beauty kit in 1970/71.
The UK variants continued with the breadbin tank until the end of T150 production in 1974.
I have no hard data on the weight difference.
But subjectively the original 1968 versions certainly feel very heavy bikes--- much more so than the later US variants.
HTH

Attached Files 1969 Triumph Trident--June 2019.jpg
Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797518 02/04/20 4:02 pm
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BSA management must have thought Honda sold the C72s and Benleys for their styling?
Meanwhile, back at Honda HQ: "To sell more bikes we need to make them look more like Triumphs!"

That aside, I actually think the "square" tanks look quite good on the Triples, BSA or Triumph. Goes well with the squared off cylinder barrel and head.
I guess the Aquamarine color would suit an elderly gent better than a young rocker though. It certainly looks better to me today than it did 50 years ago...

SR

Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797520 02/04/20 4:30 pm
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^^ Agree. Back then, to us road race fans, the square tank looked great, very racerly. The mufflers were beyond the pale, however.

Speaking of Benlys, back in '63 I bought a CB92 125cc Benly Super Sport, sold it the next year for $500 ... a trashy one now sells for over $10K -- check out the tank thumbsup

[Linked Image from bikesrestored.com]

And check out the 8" brakes thumbsup

[pic from Web -- not mine]

Last edited by kurt fischer; 02/04/20 6:27 pm.

Kurt

-- Don't believe everything you think.
Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797522 02/04/20 4:37 pm
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H*nda's fuel tanks were certainly easier to make from two pressings. In the 60's BSA had a 4 gallon version of their teardrop tank which would have far more suitable to the triple than the little 2.5 gallon. Especially since the triple was supposed to more of a long distance bike. When they went to the OIF they had a European tank that was far better looking then the H*nda style that they used. They could have made a different tunnel and used it on the triple.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]

Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797547 02/04/20 10:14 pm
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In my humble and irrelevant opinion, the 'breadbin' T150 tanks looked a hell of a lot nicer than th T140 / TR7 'breadbins'. And, equally humbly and with equal irrelevance, I have never understood why US tanks - although they undoubtedly look far prettier - hold so much less gas than the UK versions, where our roads are so much shorter and the distance between gas station so much less.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797551 02/04/20 10:32 pm
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Tigernuts---you are looking for logic and rationale in a Triumph Motorcycle?
You should know better than that by now.

Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797561 02/04/20 11:41 pm
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Who needed a big tank back in those days? Riders around here didn't ride very far, and there's a gas station every few feet. Weather had to be warm and dry. And how far can you ride with just sunglasses for gear? Also, we don't all live in West Texas.

And who can forget "peanut" tanks on choppahs?

Last edited by kurt fischer; 02/05/20 2:53 am.

Kurt

-- Don't believe everything you think.
Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797568 02/05/20 2:09 am
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When I was younger...much younger,,,,I never had the $$$ but always wanted to 'convert' my Trident to the US tank and seat version but never did. Now I am older.....much older....and I like my breadbin tank and the US style tank no longer interests me. The Trident breadbin is a unique work of art, how could you not admire it?

Anyway, that's not the real battle, I still constantly get that 'How is your Harley going, still riding them?' …….where I have never actually owned [ok I did once , bought in boxes, sold complete and made $$$] a Harley and have nil interest in them. It takes all my self control not to slap them down...……..but to the general non riding or casual riding public, Triumphs. Harleys, Nortons, Vulcans, Shadows, and V rods [see what I did there] are all Harleys. Because Harley publicity said it is so [or so they believe], so it must be true smile.

Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #797612 02/05/20 5:54 pm
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Hi Brett,

Originally Posted by BrettF
confused as to
the "beauty kits" for a given year, were the colours for the bread bins and the repalcement beauty kits "supposed" to be the same.

As others have posted, strictly-speaking, "beauty kits" were '69-only - a kit of parts to change the appearance of bikes already in the US but not selling.

Otoh, for 1970, Meriden produced two versions as they did in every other range - 'UK & General Export' with a breadbin tank and "North American Variant" with essentially 'beauty kit' parts factory-fitted.

'71-on, there were simply a 'UK & General Export' version - essentially breadbin tank and corresponding slightly shorter seat, low handlebars - and 'US' version - "teardrop"(?) tank and corresponding slightly longer seat, high 'bars. Other parts that had been changed by a 'beauty kit' were common to both versions.

'69 beauty kit and '70 NAV tanks were different colours from corresponding breadbin tanks but, in subsequent years, the colours were either the same or very similar.

Originally Posted by BrettF
Trident colours

If you go to http://www.triplesonline.com/ and click on "The Bikes..." and then "Triumph T150 Trident" in the drop-down, nine images should display and, while they aren't all correctly-captioned, should give you a good idea.

Fi, the incorrect ones are:-

. "1970 T150" - as you can see, the image is identical to the "1969 T150". In reality, the "1970 UK spec" breadbin tank was Olympic Flame (a dark orange) with a Silver panel on each side - similar to the "1973 T150V - UK spec" image - and the sidepanels, although similar to those in the "1969 T150" image, were Black.

. The tank and sidepanels in the "1971 T150 - UK spec" image are the same as '69 'beauty kit' but the rest of the bike - forks, brakes, etc. - give it away as '71.

. Those same tank and sidepanels were also fitted certainly to most '70 "North American Variant" and they're what's seen on nearly all restored '70 T150 NAV today; however, some NAV might've had the 'beauty kit' tank also done in Olympic Flame & Silver; sadly, fewer than 300 real '1970' T150's of both versions were made and the dispatch books don't list the colours. frown

. Past TOL forum posts confirm early 1971 T150's did look like the "1971 T150 - UK spec" image ... but they went to Canada and the US ... smile However, by the time the 5-speed AMA homologation batch were built in January 1971, they were Black and White like the "1971 T150 - US spec" image. All the 1971 UK spec. T150's I've known had a breadbin tank in Black & White similar to the pattern in the "1973 T150V - UK spec" image.

. "1974 T150V - UK spec" also looked like the "1973 T150V - UK spec" image but the tank panel was mostly Gold or Yellow. That said, Small Heath did produce a batch of '74 T150's with Black & Red US-market tanks, the difference is '73 sidepanel badges are Silver letters on a Red background, all '74 are Gold on a Black background.

. Missing from the images are any of a '73 Series 1 ... smile the two "1973" images are of the more-common Series 2 T150's with front disc brake, large rear lamp, etc.; otoh, '73 Series 1 look more like '72 - conical-hub front brake, small rear lamp, etc.

Styling aside, imho Meriden missed two tricks with particularly the '69 colours. Breadbin tank and sidepanels in one unrelieved colour was A Bad Idea; Aquamarine was a colour Triumph had used before, as recently as the the '68 T100's, but the latter's coloured parts were a mixture of Aquamarine & Silver. I've seen both a breadbin in Aquamarine & Silver patterned like the '73 (and '74) breadbins, and a 'beauty-kitted' T150 with Aquamarine & Silver tank in the 'beauty kit' pattern and retaining the rayguns. While I'm not a breadbin fan, imho both were an improvement on both standards.

Originally Posted by BrettF
Were all UK bikes supplied with the Ogle styling or was it mixed up?

'71-on, mixed afaik, the 'US' styling appealed to many owners everywhere in the world; otoh, it might have been difficult to get a breadbin tank on a new bike in the US?

Originally Posted by BrettF
read the Ogle design was 20 kg heavier

Nah ... probably started by someone who'd looked at a picture of a triple ... facepalm One advantage of the www and forums like this is people who actually own and ride these old heaps can rubbish the old wives' tales. thumbsup

Originally Posted by Tigernuts
I have never understood why US tanks
hold so much less gas

In the case of the T150 tanks, there isn't that much difference - breadbin ~4.5 UK gallons, US ~3.8 UK gallons. Even the T160 tanks are only one UK gallon bigger/smaller than each other (the "2.5 gallons" US tank size in many T160 specs. is a misprint, it's officially 3.5 gallons and more like 3.8 in reality thumbsup ).

Bear in mind the reason Meriden produced the 'beauty kit' so quickly was the styling had been worked up before the triples' September 1968 launch - many at Meriden had assumed the T150 would be styled like the contemporary twins and the styling work-up included using the bigger TR6R tank, itself a basic shape that'd been around since the pre-units. When Meriden staff saw the chosen triples styling and then sales proved the doom-mongers and teeth-suckers right, everyone was only too happy to do down "Mecca" as quickly as possible ... (BSA Group Development at Umberslade Hall was allegedly so-nicknamed (amongst others whistle ) because - in a West Midlands accent - "Whatever they do, they always mekka balls of it." grin ). The pimple-sized '71-on Rocket 3 'US market' tank seems to have been Umberslade Hall replicating the basic Meriden idea - modify an existing tank - without understanding the Meriden detail - modify an existing big tank ... facepalm

Originally Posted by Tigernuts
UK versions, where our roads are so much shorter and the distance between gas station so much less.

Most distances between British petrol (please!) stations might be less than many in the US, but even I can recall challenges finding an open one on a Sunday in some parts of Scotland and Wales in the days before supermarkets and automated point-of-sale. Also, "UK" was actually "UK & General Export"; even just in western Europe, when fuel is required, there seem to be vast tracts where no-one lives and therefore no filling stations, never mind the rural passion for not opening on Sundays and Bank Holidays ... eek

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Bread bin and shoe boxes verus teardrops
BrettF #798031 02/10/20 5:49 am
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To me it's not so much the breadbox tank, it's that awful aquamarine paint. At least BSA had the good sense to make theirs red. I do prefer the US market petrol tank, though. It's a trade off, you Brits got proper bars instead of simi apehangers.
I also wonder why the sporting, two-carb models got the tiny tank while the TR6 got the big one. Still looking for a home-market tank for the BSA.
The rayguns aren't so bad, if only they'd have canted them up like the production racers.


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71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"

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