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trevinoz
newcastle australia
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Something interesting from work
#796369 01/23/20 8:07 am
Joined: May 2007
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I have a regular customer with a Peugeot 308. For the last couple of years I've been noting that the timing chain is getting worn, evidenced by a loud rattle from cold. He has been ignoring the advise to replace the chain.

Last week we get a call from the customer and I quote " Fucking car is broken again, I'm dropping it off ". I fired the motor up from stone cold and it was quiet as a mouse but the management lamp was illuminated and it was running a little rough. Had a chat with the engine ECU and it came back with a fault for the cam / crank angle sensor phasing. This is a common code generally indicating excessive timing chain wear. But what happened to all the noise?

Off came the cam cover. The upper timing chain guide ( between the two cam sprockets ) had taken such a hammering that the plastic guide and a piece of the steel bracket had broken off and fallen into the chain cavity. Instead of getting caught up in the chain and destroying the motor it had wedged itself between the guide rail and tensioner rail in such a position that it actually took all the slack out of the chain allowing the motor to continue running.

I don't how to describe to the customer just how lucky he is!

Rod


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Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796382 01/23/20 1:15 pm
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I had a timing chain get so loose it attempted to chew it's way out of the timing cover.
This was in a '77 Chevy with a 350 cu. inch engine.

Those were the years when some bean counter in General Motors decided to replace the steel cam sprockest with
aluminum ones coated in nylon. The nylon wore off and the chain became loose.

The first indication of trouble was the noise the chain made as it chewed into the tin timing cover.

Lucky me, I caught it in time to repair it. THIS time a STEEL sprocket was installed.

Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796387 01/23/20 2:20 pm
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Originally Posted by R Moulding

I I don't how to describe to the customer just how lucky he is!

Rod



Easy-present him with an estimate for a new motor and as that sinks in then tell him what really happened, and how much more he might have spent in potential towing and car rental bills for ignoring the obvious. I'm in the auto parts field, and I see this type of thing a lot. Can't tell you how many customers have come in needing brake pads, rotors, and calipers because they ignored the initial warning squeak and kept driving till the lining is completely gone and the rotors trashed. Had a guy buy a rear wheel bearing for a Honda a while back. The following Saturday he returned the bearing for pads one rotor and a caliper for the right rear. His old rotor was in 2 pieces due to the pad backing plate being COMPLETELY worn away and the caliper piston worn right through the rotor surface. My guess is he had a really good sound system in that car to have ignored the grinding for that long.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Something interesting from work
MikeG #796404 01/23/20 5:37 pm
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A local garage had something that looked like a "fan" hung on the wall behind the cash register.

However, it was cast-iron.

It was a brake rotor, of which the entire outer disc had been WORN OFF because the car owner hadn't ever had his brakes serviced, or even checked.

Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796406 01/23/20 6:15 pm
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I've told the story before of my buddy with a '68 or '69 Mustang GT with a 390 engine he'd owned since it was new (this was about 1986).

For a guy with a nice old car who apparently enjoyed driving it and was proud of it in a weird sort of way, he did spend time bragging about how he never washed it (and you could tell - the paint was starting to flake) and never had to "do anything to fix it".

I saw it on the side of the road one day ... a couple days later I asked him "Jimmy, what happened to the Mustang?"

He said "Well, it just started slowing down, and I pulled over to the side and the engine just slowed down and quit, and I couldn't get it started. And it's like trouble comes in bunches - last week, the oil pressure gauge quit working and would only show "0". I don't know what's wrong."

We shared the same mechanic at that time, and next time I was in the garage I asked Mr. Martin what was up with Jim's GT. He said that it looked like the oil had NEVER been changed in the engine, at over 120,000 miles - the sump was nothing but sludge, and the oil pump couldn't pick it up any more. He drove it for a week like that before the engine finally died. The block wasn't even worth saving, he said .....

Lannis


"Why do you wear that thing, Dobby?" "This, sir? It is the sign of a house-elves enslavement."
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796421 01/23/20 9:04 pm
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Somebody showed me this the other day, but I suspect it has more to do with something put in the oil for all the wrong reasons rather than lack of maintenance. Never seen anything like it before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MskJaTr2uho


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Something interesting from work
MikeG #796422 01/23/20 9:10 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeG
Somebody showed me this the other day, but I suspect it has more to do with something put in the oil for all the wrong reasons rather than lack of maintenance. Never seen anything like it before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MskJaTr2uho


The pictures of the underside of the engine look clean and not very old. I'm wagering that someone that didn't like them poured something into the crankcase to screw up the car.

We used to hear that if you put "sugar in the gas tank" it would choke off the fuel system on the car and carbon up the cylinders. I don't know if that was true or not; you hear so many things that turn out to be "not true" ....

Lannis


"Why do you wear that thing, Dobby?" "This, sir? It is the sign of a house-elves enslavement."
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796427 01/23/20 9:32 pm
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We used to run XJ 650 & 750s for the couried motorcycle fleet as I was good friends with the spares manager at the biggest Yamaha dealer in Sydney,
Our riders bitched like you would not believe about being forced to use these Shite boxes
On morning one of the riders asked could he be picked up because his Kawasaki ( the perfect bike in eyes ) would not move.
Latter in the day we picked it up to take it to the a'fashionable" motorcycle shop for repairs.
One disc had separated as per your fan and when the other was taken off you could bend the disc with your hands.

But my bikes were apparently unsafe !


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796434 01/24/20 12:15 am
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We knew of a guy like your customer when we were kids. He had an Ariel Red Hunter. The primary chain was trying to escape and almost did, he welded the piston back together and put it back in the engine when it broke, when he needed a cotter pin a nail would do and when one of the dual exhaust pipes needed replacing a wooden plug driven into the port sufficed...….

Oh well

Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796459 01/24/20 7:55 am
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I was tasked with getting this thing back up and running this morning, so for those that find mechanical things interesting I snapped a couple of pictures. First a couple of things to make the pictures make sense.

These engines have neither timing marks or keyways, the cam and crank sprockets spin freely when the securing bolts are loosened. Service tools are used to lock the crank and cams in position to set the timing, once set the bolts are torqued. This allows the timing to be continuously reset as the chain wears.

There is no removable timing chain cover, the sprocket, chain and guide/tensioner rails are lowered in from the top and the rail assembly is secured using shouldered through bolts from the front.

This is the remains of the offending top chain guide

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and wedged down in between the chain runs are the remains

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

A pin is used through the bell housing into the flex plate to lock the crank with the pistons half way down the bores. Then two locking plates are used to hold the cams in position. These should fit against the surface of the head and bolt together.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

You can see here just how far out the exhaust cam is, impressive that I drove this car into the workshop after a spirited road test.

Out with the old bits

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

In with the new, timed up and ready to go

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The plugs are suffering from some fuel fouling but a quick road test confirmed the repair and the fault codes cleared.

Rod


New, Genuine Lucas Motorcycle parts!

Insist on something else.
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796716 01/27/20 5:37 am
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I worked with a fella who bought a new Nissan Altima when he got his first real paycheck. He did not understand why oil needed to be changed, nor wanted to waste money on it. The Nissan went 70K miles on the original oil, never changed or topped off. Nissan did not warrantee the engine for some strange reason.


1967 A65 Lightning
1967 Moto Guzzi V7
1969 B44 Victor Special
1966? Royal Enfield Interceptor
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796747 01/27/20 5:10 pm
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I remember one item in News of the Weird many years ago. A woman had been pulled over for speeding. She told the officer that the oil light came on so she was trying to get home as fast as possible.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796754 01/27/20 5:55 pm
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My Grandad used to love telling me of the time my Mum Borrowed his Austin A35. On a stretch of B road heading for Aldershot she saw a green light come on in the Speedo, it was too dark to read that it said "Oil" next to the light so she decided that Green must mean go! Not all oil lights were Red!

Rod


New, Genuine Lucas Motorcycle parts!

Insist on something else.
Re: Something interesting from work
R Moulding #796794 01/28/20 12:48 am
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It's amazing what you could get away with with some old cars, i had a '65 vauxhall viva van for a while when i was a kid,
I used to fill it up with the oil out of the waste oil drum at my brothers garage ( i pumped it out of the top so the sludge
wasn't in it). It used around a gallon a week so would not otherwise have been economically viable. The oil light was
covered by a green shield (trading) stamp as it was irritating at night below about 30mph (always on) I must have done 10,000
miles in that, it knocked and the mains growled like buggery, but it always ran. When i needed it to tow my race bike,
i rebuilt the lump and it wasn't that bad internally really, it had done about 120,000 miles as it was an ex Bass-Charrington
company van. Set of rings and a crank grind etc and away i went.


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