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piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? #793989 12/27/19 6:28 am
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Mark Z Offline OP
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On some of the early piled arms logos, the border is clearly a belt, with buckle and little holes. On later logos, the buckle is replaced by what looks like the mouth of a powder horn - but it still has the little holes as if for a belt buckle!

Any insight or opinions on this?


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #793999 12/27/19 12:18 pm
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Never seen on on a manual or motorcycle that was not a belt buckle .
However BSA guns do also have rights to the piled arms logo as do Raleigh pushbikes .
So where did you see a powder horn on the belt ?


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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794067 12/28/19 4:51 am
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Mark Z Offline OP
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I just Googled "piled arms logo images" and saw quite a variety of images. Interestingly, as you pointed out, one of the suggested links was for "piled arms motorcycle logo, so that may be the difference.

Ok, I just looked again; I guess that is just another sort of buckle, but a round ring. Others (presumably the older ones) have a square buckle.

Sorry for the waste of cyber space. Too much time on my hands...


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794078 12/28/19 2:41 pm
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Still an interesting detail to bring to attention. Little bits like that are fun to be have in the background.


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
1 '65 XLCH, Hernia Gift, on the way to Japan!
Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: KC in S.B.] #794115 12/28/19 9:59 pm
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Mark Z Offline OP
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Originally Posted by KC in S.B.
Still an interesting detail to bring to attention. Little bits like that are fun to be have in the background.


In lieu of riding anyway. We've been getting some pretty warm weather lately; I think it hit 50 today, but there's so much salt on the roads that I don't dare subject the old girl to it.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794157 12/29/19 4:15 am
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The order for erecting a free standing tripod arrangement of rifles is "Stack Arms". It is part of the manual of arms. I'm surprised no other veterans have responded. The arms are not "piled" they are stacked. I was on a Pershing Rifles drill team at The Ohio State University Army ROTC in the sixties and we drilled with M1 rifles. The competition always included a "Stack Arms" sequence. The arrangement of the rifles was inspected by the judges for accuracy.
Inspector Bob

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: InspectorBob] #794158 12/29/19 4:36 am
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Originally Posted by InspectorBob
The order for erecting a free standing tripod arrangement of rifles is "Stack Arms". It is part of the manual of arms. I'm surprised no other veterans have responded. The arms are not "piled" they are stacked. I was on a Pershing Rifles drill team at The Ohio State University Army ROTC in the sixties and we drilled with M1 rifles. The competition always included a "Stack Arms" sequence. The arrangement of the rifles was inspected by the judges for accuracy.
Inspector Bob
Another case of us being separated by a common language. The British term is piled arms, and BSA having been a British company...
It's interesting that the US military uses stacked arms, so I wonder what term is used in the other former British colonies.

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Shane in Oz] #794173 12/29/19 7:54 am
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[/quote] so I wonder what term is used in the other former British colonies.
[/quote]


They're called fenders not mudguards.


Bill B...


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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794202 12/29/19 3:42 pm
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I followed Mark’s google search myself just for a look. TONS of examples. The more I looked, it seems like any differences were likely explained as aftermarket supplier efforts not done to any exacting standards. Make a sticker, and Sell’em !!


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
1 '65 XLCH, Hernia Gift, on the way to Japan!
Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Boomer] #794212 12/29/19 5:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Boomer

so I wonder what term is used in the other former British colonies.
[/quote]

They're called fenders not mudguards.
Bill B...[/quote]

I know it is what it is ? .. But why Fenders ? .. They don't actually 'fend off' anything as the name would suggest do they - or even at best stop the wheels from making contact with any surfaces that might otherwise cause damage (That is unless you suddenly find the bike is now traveling upside down and sliding up the road immediately following an accident sick )..

But strangely enough they do make a pretty good job of 'guarding' the bike & rider from any mud or water splashes that might get thrown up from the road surface .. 'Mudguard' .. Hmmm?? .. yep it works for me wink

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794218 12/29/19 5:47 pm
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The "dash board" in an automobile changed meaning as well. Originally it was a "spatter-dash" board which, on the early cars, deflected mud away from the driver. Later "fenders (or mudguards) were mounted above and behind the wheels to do the same job.
But because the "dashboard" was immediately in front of the driver, it later became a term used to show where the gauges are mounted.

If you have heard the term "spats," those were a type of civilian gaiters that were worn over the shoes, socks and (sometimes) the lower pant legs to protect against mud and water in the days of dirt roads and sidewalks. Like "dash board," the term was an abbreviation of "spatter-dash."

Now, Brits, why ifs the car's hood called the "bonnet", and the trunk called the "boot?"

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794222 12/29/19 6:16 pm
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Interesting !

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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Bodie] #794227 12/29/19 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by Bodie


I know it is what it is ? .. But why Fenders ? .. They don't actually 'fend off' anything as the name would suggest do they - or even at best stop the wheels from making contact with any surfaces that might otherwise cause damage



It would seem you define "fender" just by saying what it isn't but actually is.

Webster dictionary:

"fender: a device that protects such as a guard over a wheel of a motor vehicle."



Bill B...


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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794234 12/29/19 8:15 pm
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ah yes American "English"

I just love the term ZERK(s) ..........say dag nab it i done forgot to grease my zerks ......best i do that next wrenching season

Last edited by Ignoramus; 12/29/19 8:17 pm.

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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Ignoramus] #794237 12/29/19 9:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
I just love the term ZERK(s) ..........say dag nab it i done forgot to grease my zerks

Personally I prefer to grease my nipples. smile

John

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: George Kaplan] #794272 12/30/19 3:36 am
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Originally Posted by George Kaplan
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
I just love the term ZERK(s) ..........say dag nab it i done forgot to grease my zerks

Personally I prefer to grease my nipples. smile

John



Awe, come on John, this is a family friendly site, HaHa.


Bill B...


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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794283 12/30/19 5:03 am
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I'm glad I was able to stimulate such a lively dialog; maybe not such a waste of cyber space after all...

The BSA Factory Spares manual (at least those from '66 and '67, which are the only ones I have) lists all the parts in four languages, English, French, German, and Italian. I think the German term for mudguard, "shutzblech", is the most visceral.

Tell me if this is also true in England, but over here we still refer to a manual transmission as a "standard transmission", harkening back to the days when an automatic transmission was an option that you paid extra for. I recall that automatics became the standard, at least for your average American family sedan, in the mid-1950s.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794284 12/30/19 5:33 am
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Originally Posted by Ignoramus
ah yes American "English"

As Ignoramus quotes American "English" or should we call it "American" English ; it's so widely used nowadays that no matter what translation we lean towards or have grown up using we all know what the US UK alternate versions really are .

So I apologise if i agree to disagree but i'll stick with the correct UK version wink
.. I just find it very hard to picture a group of Spanner wielding Brummies working on archaic BSA assembly lines bolting up American Fenders onto British made motorbikes instead of Mudguards whistle crazy

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mudguard

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794285 12/30/19 8:02 am
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i think the piled arms with belt surround is an evolution of simpler
bsa stamped logos
[Linked Image from dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net]
, but dont know when it happened .
here is a 1938 bsa Golden Key bicycle sporting the logo
[Linked Image from oldbike.eu]
this bicycle has a front and back mud guard... and a mud flap
[Linked Image from oldbike.eu]

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794362 12/30/19 7:23 pm
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My Aussie mom used to call aluminum al-u-min-yum so there's also the difference in enunciation.


Bill B...


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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794363 12/30/19 7:35 pm
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fender |ˈfendər|
noun
1 a thing used to keep something off or prevent a collision, in particular:
• N. Amer. the mudguard or area around the wheel well of a vehicle.
• a plastic cylinder, tire, etc., hung over a ship's side to protect it against impact.
• US a metal frame at the front of a locomotive or streetcar for pushing aside obstacles on the line; a cowcatcher.
2 a low frame bordering a fireplace to contain burning materials.

I would think that the origin is a description of a guard which fends off water or mud.
A rose by any other name....


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

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Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: DavidP] #794369 12/30/19 9:15 pm
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the fender , in the early day of motoring also fended off
Pedestrians . Some early safety designs stressed how close to
the ground a fender should be
so that a Fallen pedestrian could not fit under the fender ... ouch

but it was a different world in 1900 .
a fender bender was preferable to a charge of manslaughter .

the motor vehicle was the radical high-speed interloper ...
a toy for the privileged few
in a much larger pedestrian environment .

jay-walking , a crime in most cities today ... had not been invented .
Up till the motor vehicle age ... it was just called ... walking .

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: quinten] #794421 12/31/19 4:02 am
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Originally Posted by quinten
Some early safety designs stressed how close to the ground a fender
should be so that a Fallen pedestrian could not fit under the fender ... ouch


But what's this part everyone keeps calling the 'fender' have to do with anything ? .. Down here it's Boats that use fenders ,
you'd be more likely to drown if you slipped under a fender whistle
Cars only have 'Wings' over they're wheels to keep any wayward pedestrian suffering vertigo from falling under the wheels .

Geez !, what's next !! .. BSA's fitted with triple trees & wrist pins ?? .. Never !! .. grin facepalm

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794464 12/31/19 4:10 pm
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Having spent seven years in the infantry in the sixties, British, I can say I never once stacked or piled arms. Interestingly, or not, the three rifles look like the Martini type. And most of the terms like Dash and boot etc come from carriage days. Just transferred to cars, autos.

Re: piled arms logo - belt or powder horn? [Re: Mark Z] #794479 12/31/19 6:52 pm
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These days, English-English and American-English are both being superseded by what I'll call "commercial English". That is, if you want to source a particular part on the internet, you need to go by what the suppliers are calling it.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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