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#789531 11/08/19 8:26 pm
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Can anyone steer me toward a listing showing the various cams produced by Triumph for 650 pre unit and unit twins up thru about 1969.
Also can any of you tell me where I can mismatch cams and still have a smooth running engine?
Even though I have a lot of used cams, once you polish the lobes and mic the bearing surfaces, most are ready for the scrap heap.
I have a very nice set of 70-1485's, one nice 70-3134.
I also have several from the mid '60's with the hole for points cam - any reason these won't work in a pre unit.
Is there any reason a later set of lifters with the oil holes for the late '60's with oil holes in the exhaust lifter block can't be used in a pre unit as long as the cams are hardened / nitrated??
One final question - where can I see some sort of data advising which lifters should be used with the various cams?
Thanks
Sam

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I have the same listing on my computer. It's been very helpful when selecting cams for my various projects over the years. Select a cam with the N designation in the list which are nitrided cams but you need only do this for the exhaust cam as the inlet cam has an easier life. This is helpful for nitrided cams because I believe that the inlet cam with the breather hole that was also nitrided were made for one year only. Perhaps more important for your lifters are whether or not they are wide radius or short radius lifters. It affects cam timing a bit and it's helpful to know beforehand.
Held side by side, it's easy to tell the difference between the two types.
E1485 is for 40's 5T. Doubt your bike will have much umpf.
I'm not really sure the wide radius lifter make much more power. Never experimented with that much.
Thanks to PeteR(rip) I now check my lifter block alignment very carefully. I can remember in the past struggling to balance opening and closing times from right to left and being frustrated by it.
I've found them off enough to actually re-drill the set screw holes in the lifter block in order to get them aligned.
Mixing odd number cams is a bit of a crapshoot, I think. it might be fun to experiment with different cams. In the end, it's hard to beat the old 3134 cam for daily riders. When degreeing in these cams, it's helpful to set the center lobe number most accurately as opposed to the opening and closing times. More on that cam be found by searching this site.
Cheers,
Bill


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Both of your answers were a big help.
I now have more questions - the two cams that I have with casting numbers e3325 on one side are stamped e3134 on the opposite side - what gives?
Too bad these e1485 cams are duds performance wise - they sure are nice.
John Healy recently warned me about blueing the cams to check lifter contact - I've built a number of engines over the years and never heard that. Of course this '57 T110 is the first I've had to replace a lifter block.
Can you tell me what the "codes" mean in the chart you gave me? If two cams have the same code, can I assume they can be matched in the same engine?
One other question comes to mind - I installed new cam bearings and used the reamer / pilot set Coventry sells. It gave me a clearance of .004 (the original bushings were past .007).
I always thought that around .002 was nearer what they came with new. any ideas on this?
Thanks
Sam

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E3325 cast in number is the blank part number. E3134 is the finished part number. Only the latter counts.
Clearance on cam bushings depends on material. I would fit machined bronze bearings a little looser than Oilite bearings, which can be a sliding fit.
There's a key later on in the listing that gives the codes you're looking for.
Key to Codes: X = Breather Y = Contact breaker
CP = Copper plated SG = Spiral gear (distributor drive)
n = nitrited
So each cam will have its own codes, ie. exhast cams don't have breathers.
Cheers,
Bill


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As a rule of thumb if you have odd cams, the longer duration one goes on the inlet.

I wouldn’t condemn the 1485s without checking lift and duration and considering whether you even want to go fast.

3134 inlet and 1485 exhaust might also work ok.


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Originally Posted by triton thrasher
As a rule of thumb if you have odd cams, the longer duration one goes on the inlet.

I wouldn’t condemn the 1485s without checking lift and duration and considering whether you even want to go fast.

3134 inlet and 1485 exhaust might also work ok.


Personally I doubt if the 1485 would work well with an E3134, but I'm often proved wrong.
I overhauled a T140 a while ago which had an E3325 inlet and E3134 exhaust. I asked if he'd want an E3134 inlet instead, but he said he was happy with it so the 3325 stayed.
Fact is the bike goes really surprisingly well with this combination, even if I wouldn't ever have considered it.

SR

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Originally Posted by Stein Roger

Personally I doubt if the 1485 would work well with an E3134, but I'm often proved wrong.
I overhauled a T140 a while ago which had an E3325 inlet and E3134 exhaust. I asked if he'd want an E3134 inlet instead, but he said he was happy with it so the 3325 stayed.
Fact is the bike goes really surprisingly well with this combination, even if I wouldn't ever have considered it.

SR


I may be more likely than you, to be proved wrong about that, but nobody knows for sure.

Nobody except Triumph would have considered the combination of cams that the T140 came with.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 11/10/19 3:31 pm.

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All of you have turned on the lights for me concerning Triumph cams.
That leads to other questions associated with cams and clearances - mainly the hardness and which lifters to use plus correctly reading the chart.
I realize that a larger radius means a flatter lifter surface and consequently a longer duration (opens sooner and closes later).

Where is a chart showing which lifter configuration (std or R) for the 3134 grind / profile?

Also in one place the chart shows to take the measurements at .020 lift, whereas some of you are indicating .020 clearance.
I read the section on Megacycle.
I built many SV650 engines for my son over 8 of the 10 years we were racing in the CMRA.
I would like to say the word successfully since he won the #1 plate at the end of the '07 season and was in the top 10 I believe for every year he ran a full season as an expert.
I got off on this tangent to suggest that I have an above average knowledge of Megacycle cams. That said, they are generally set at 0 valve clearance and .040 lift.
Also because of manufacturing tolerances, I always degree cams with the lobe center method if possible.
Further, lift is always measured at the valve, not the cam lobe unless you have a twin cam engine with a shim bucket arrangement.
I realize that other brands of cams may / probably give different specs.
John Healy told me last week that I had to be careful matching cams and lifter because of the hardness.
I understand the meaning of the word "disaster" when you mate two hard or two soft metals together (stainless valves with bronze guides for instance).
I have maybe 20 Triumph cams and even more usable lifters from various engines in a pile to choose from, that's why I'm concerned about mismatching parts.
This '57 T110 engine I'm building was so bad from wear and rust, about all I'm using is the cases. That's what got me into these questions.

Can I use lifters with oil holes in them on intakes.
Are all cams that had lifters with oil holes nitrated? The chart only shows a few cams as being nitrated.

Are there any other printed articles discussing the do's and don't s of Triumph cams and lifters?
Thanks
Sam

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If you look closely at the lifter, it has a piece of very hard material silver soldered to the end of it. Stellite, I think is the term.
I think all the lifters were made this way right on through, but if not, someone here will correct me.
So, I'm not sure what Mr Healy was referring to. The lifters with holes were used only on exhaust cams. Due to the way the oil is distributed inside the cases, the exhaust cams get too little oil and the inlets a sufficient supply.
When you match used parts together, however, you can get fairly rapid wear. I've always refaced my used lifters manually with 600 grit wet or dry. Or you can have them done by a machinist.
Best yet, start with all new parts. Cams are actually rather reasonable if you ask me and there are a range of them available in stock configurations and they are all hardened these days.
For me the rule has been to use a hardened exhaust cam and four cam followers of the same type that have been resurfaced. I haven't experienced any difficulties yet doing it this way. In fact, I've only just now adjusted the tappets on my old 'Bird after about 6 k miles. Not too bad....
When sorting through used cams, you will find some that show no signs of wear at all. These are either new, or nitrided cams. I've yet to see a worn one.
I don't see any reason you can't use any lifter front or rear as long as it's the radius you are after.
Cheers,
Bill


Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 11/10/19 7:14 pm.

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Quote
John Healy recently warned me about blueing the cams to check lifter contact - I've built a number of engines over the years and never heard that. Of course this '57 T110 is the first I've had to replace a lifter block.


The warning was that with just bluing on the cam there is no lubrication. My warning was to be careful! And don't to put much pressure on the tappet and only rotate it once. It is easy to gall steel when rubbed against each other dry.

"Galling is adhesive wear that is caused by microscopic transfer of material between metallic surfaces, during transverse motion (sliding). It occurs frequently whenever metal surfaces are in contact, sliding against each other, especially with poor lubrication."

Bill: if you are referring to Harris cams only some of the late model ones are nitrited.

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Originally Posted by triton thrasher


I may be more likely than you, to be proved wrong about that, but nobody knows for sure.

Nobody except Triumph would have considered the combination of cams that the T140 came with.

Yes, Norman Hyde says how it went down, big inlet cam to reduce low end, but it went so well they used a small exhaust cam to reduce top end.
All this so they wouldn't have to upgrade the timing side bearing!
Sounds more like a pub story than anything. beerchug

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It’s not even impossible that they deliberately avoided making the twin faster than the triple.


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If I'm not mistaken, Triumph themselves used the 3134/3325 combo on the first Bonnies.
I had this on my '62 and it made very nice power.
Cheers,
Bill


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1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.

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