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Planes trains and motorcycles
#787830 10/22/19 2:22 pm
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I need to travel from my home in New Hampshire to Philadelphia in December and the thought of spending 8 hours in the car each way fighting NY and NJ traffic for what would then be a 2 day stay no longer appeals to me. A while back, 10 years or so ago, Southwest airlines flew from Manchester NH to Philly direct for less money than I would have spent on gas driving, and gotten me there in an hour and a half max. Now Southwest no longer flies direct to Philly from NH, so I can take a flight to Chicago and then to Philly for about $600 and spend 6 hours or more doing it. crazy My next thought was Amtrak. They run high speed trains all along the northeast corridor, and I could hop a train in Boston and take it right to 30th street station in Philly. Takes about 5 hours, plus the 2 hour drive to Boston, but at least I'm not fighting traffic right? Sounds good but it 's almost $50 MORE to take a train than it is to fly confused I can even fly direct from Manchester on American airlines for less than that and not have to drive to Boston at all. Be there in an hour or so too. Given all that, I don't understand how anybody could think that people would be willing to give up their cars or motorcycles or air travel in favor of rail travel, high speed or not, when they can't compete, even with the massive government subsidies keeping them afloat.


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787833 10/22/19 3:36 pm
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Amtrak runs two services on the Northeast corridor. There is the Acela, which is faster but premium price and then there is the Northeast Regional train which is a bit slower but more reasonably priced. If you only checked the Acela price you might go back and check the Northeast Regional. It should be quite a bit cheaper than flying.


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787837 10/22/19 4:01 pm
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"Given all that, I don't understand how anybody could think that people would be willing to give up their cars or motorcycles or air travel in favor of rail travel, high speed or not, when they can't compete, even with the massive government subsidies keeping them afloat."

At the risk of getting into trouble...….

Those that want you to give up your car, truck, airline seat, motorcycle, etc. for rail travel are only interested in controlling you....


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
htown #787838 10/22/19 4:20 pm
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Originally Posted by htown
Amtrak runs two services on the Northeast corridor. There is the Acela, which is faster but premium price and then there is the Northeast Regional train which is a bit slower but more reasonably priced. If you only checked the Acela price you might go back and check the Northeast Regional. It should be quite a bit cheaper than flying.



Northeast Corridor was cheaper by about $125, but it takes as much time as driving once the trip to Boston is factored in.

Rich B: thumbsup wink


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
Rich B #787853 10/22/19 6:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Rich B

Those that want you to give up your car, truck, airline seat, motorcycle, etc. for rail travel are only interested in controlling you....

And, those who wrecked the public transportation system are only interested in selling cars.
"See the USA in your Chevrolet."


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787858 10/22/19 7:08 pm
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Seems to me it was more economics that brought them down, which is exactly the point I was trying to make. "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door"


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787874 10/22/19 9:53 pm
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Amtrak from NYC to Harrisburg use to be 45 dollars one way and 90 for round trip.... That was maybe 4 or 5 years ago...Now its 90 one way... We wont use it anymore unless there is absolutely no other choice.... Faster and cheaper to drive and I can come and go as I please..


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787881 10/22/19 10:38 pm
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Mike--I live in northern NJ--just about 5 miles from the George Washington Bridge.
You are correct--the traffic can be horrendous.
However the secret is timing.
If you can time your journey so that you hit the NYC area away from the busy times then the traffic while not good is at least tolerable.
Avoid the rush hours and the school times.
8p.m. is a good time--a lot of the truckers have stopped, the rush hour is over, no school traffic and most people are having dinner or sitting down after it.
HTH

Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
Tridentman #787893 10/23/19 2:30 am
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Originally Posted by Tridentman

However the secret is timing.

HTH



Aint that the truth!!!! My journing to PA is 3 hours... 5 hours if I leave at rush hour...


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787895 10/23/19 4:11 am
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http://www.brooklynrail.net/NationalCityLinesConspiracy.html

An excerpt:
"In 1949, National City Lines were convicted in Federal court (and in 1951 the conviction was upheld) for destroying the electrified rail and electric bus transit systems in 44 American cities. Beginning in 1937, National City Lines embarked on a nationwide campaign to induce cities (by aggressively pushing “an offer you can’t refuse” of G.M. /National City Lines financing – at the height of a 12 year long, world-wide economic depression) to scrap electrically powered streetcars and trolley-buses, which G.M. did not make, and to substitute gasoline powered buses manufactured by G.M., burning Standard Oil gasoline, and rolling on Firestone rubber tires. When National City Lines would aquire a transit system, the trolley rails would be ripped up, the overhead wires would be cut down, and the system would be converted to buses within 90 days. It's noteworthy that New York City's electrified surface transportation system was National City Lines first victim (see the video “Taken For A Ride”). "


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787913 10/23/19 12:46 pm
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In the past I used to leave home in NH around midnight and make Philly by 6 or 6:30 AM if I went straight across the GW bridge. Only problem with that is by the time I got to my familys house I was ready for an after drive beer and they were all on their morning coffee.
Interesting link David, I'll have to explore it more today.
Thanks!


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787916 10/23/19 2:03 pm
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Or cut out the GWB---come down I-87 then south on RT-17 and join I-95 by the Meadowlands.
Cuts out the GWB and NYC.
HTH

Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #787920 10/23/19 3:16 pm
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Often times in the car, and always on the bike, I'll take small roads over to 87S and then pickup 287 to stay west of NYC. easy enough to pick up small roads off 287 as well if you have the time and inclination. Never tried Rt17, I'll look for it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy


1960 BSA A10
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71 Norton Commando
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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
Rich B #788886 11/02/19 11:08 am
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Originally Posted by Rich B
"Given all that, I don't understand how anybody could think that people would be willing to give up their cars or motorcycles or air travel in favor of rail travel, high speed or not, when they can't compete, even with the massive government subsidies keeping them afloat."

At the risk of getting into trouble...….

Those that want you to give up your car, truck, airline seat, motorcycle, etc. for rail travel are only interested in controlling you....


The subsidies to automobile use dewarfs any subsidy paid to rail by a massive amount.
If car & truck owners had to pay the actual price of maintaining & upgrading the road system then vehicle registrations would be close to $ 10,000 per vehicle.
And then their is police & emergency services.
My parents managed to live in an outer suburb of Sydney without owning a motor vehicle and bring up 2 children while paying off their house.
Lots of people in the UK only ever drive on the week end .
However it is easy & cheap to develope & sell megga suburbs with massively oversized houses that are totally car dependent than it is to plan & build in propper public transport.

Then there are direct subsidies paid to car factories like the $ 6,000,000 "loan" to GM the previous government made available interest free which will never be paid back.
Not a single car maker in the western world is not subsidised by their government.
Right now Bulgaria is offering to pay VW 265,000 Euros to build their new engine plant in Sofia rather than Turkey.
Along with this is a 10 year tax free period from the start of production.
According to the article in Foundry Planet , Romania is looking at topping that offer and both Turkey & Syria are also considering upping their offers.
So dont talk trash about rail needing subsidies to exist and cars not needing them.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 11/02/19 11:20 am.

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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #788930 11/02/19 6:35 pm
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Hell mikey, philly to Omaha is only 20 hours in a car. You gotta get tuff


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #788935 11/02/19 7:34 pm
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Kinda funny to listen to guys talking about the evils of IC engines and personal vehicles ... whose very screen names burn precious petrol and belch fumes into the environment ...

"Lord, I know I need to stop sinning, but PLEASE not quite yet .... "!

I'll take whatever the simplest, cheapest way is to get there. Although I rode a Greyhound bus once from Lynchburg, VA to Marietta, GA and really thought we were going to make a stop in Tegucigalpa, Karachi or Zaire on the way .... I'm not doing that again, I can only take the smell of orange peels and fried birds for so long ...

Lannis


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #789224 11/05/19 5:18 am
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Last time I went Greyhound was pretty decent. Non stop from Nashville to Knoxville, good WIFI, and they don't charge to stash your bag in the bottom of the bus.
Beat the crap outta my last airline trip from Seattle. Cramped, uncomfortable seat, and not enough space to use my laptop, even if there had been WIFI. Two hour layover in Chicago with nothing to do but spend way too much money in an airport bar with no smoking.
I used to enjoy taking the Trailways to NC to visit grandparents when I was young. Back then the bus drove through the Smokeys. It's great being able to view the scenery from the height of a bus. Plus, my Gamma would load me up with a big sack of homemade pimento cheese sandwiches for the ride back.
Someday I'd love to ride a train across the country. Sure, it takes time, but sitting back watching the beautiful country go by with a drink in my hand certainly beats dodging semis for 2000 miles in my car or what they call airline, "service."


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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
BSA_WM20 #789240 11/05/19 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Originally Posted by Rich B
"Given all that, I don't understand how anybody could think that people would be willing to give up their cars or motorcycles or air travel in favor of rail travel, high speed or not, when they can't compete, even with the massive government subsidies keeping them afloat."

At the risk of getting into trouble...….

Those that want you to give up your car, truck, airline seat, motorcycle, etc. for rail travel are only interested in controlling you....


The subsidies to automobile use dewarfs any subsidy paid to rail by a massive amount.
If car & truck owners had to pay the actual price of maintaining & upgrading the road system then vehicle registrations would be close to $ 10,000 per vehicle.
And then their is police & emergency services.
My parents managed to live in an outer suburb of Sydney without owning a motor vehicle and bring up 2 children while paying off their house.
Lots of people in the UK only ever drive on the week end .
However it is easy & cheap to develope & sell megga suburbs with massively oversized houses that are totally car dependent than it is to plan & build in propper public transport.

Then there are direct subsidies paid to car factories like the $ 6,000,000 "loan" to GM the previous government made available interest free which will never be paid back.
Not a single car maker in the western world is not subsidised by their government.
Right now Bulgaria is offering to pay VW 265,000 Euros to build their new engine plant in Sofia rather than Turkey.
Along with this is a 10 year tax free period from the start of production.
According to the article in Foundry Planet , Romania is looking at topping that offer and both Turkey & Syria are also considering upping their offers.
So dont talk trash about rail needing subsidies to exist and cars not needing them.


You should avoid discussing American politics..For the same reason I don't discuss Australian politics...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
BSA_WM20 #789254 11/05/19 3:54 pm
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Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Originally Posted by Rich B
"Given all that, I don't understand how anybody could think that people would be willing to give up their cars or motorcycles or air travel in favor of rail travel, high speed or not, when they can't compete, even with the massive government subsidies keeping them afloat."

At the risk of getting into trouble...….

Those that want you to give up your car, truck, airline seat, motorcycle, etc. for rail travel are only interested in controlling you....


The subsidies to automobile use dewarfs any subsidy paid to rail by a massive amount.
If car & truck owners had to pay the actual price of maintaining & upgrading the road system then vehicle registrations would be close to $ 10,000 per vehicle.
And then their is police & emergency services.
My parents managed to live in an outer suburb of Sydney without owning a motor vehicle and bring up 2 children while paying off their house.
Lots of people in the UK only ever drive on the week end .
However it is easy & cheap to develope & sell megga suburbs with massively oversized houses that are totally car dependent than it is to plan & build in propper public transport.

Then there are direct subsidies paid to car factories like the $ 6,000,000 "loan" to GM the previous government made available interest free which will never be paid back.
Not a single car maker in the western world is not subsidised by their government.
Right now Bulgaria is offering to pay VW 265,000 Euros to build their new engine plant in Sofia rather than Turkey.
Along with this is a 10 year tax free period from the start of production.
According to the article in Foundry Planet , Romania is looking at topping that offer and both Turkey & Syria are also considering upping their offers.
So dont talk trash about rail needing subsidies to exist and cars not needing them.


Excellent point. Thank you for sharing this!
The U.S. government subsidizes ALL major corporations at the expense of the tax payer. Now a days, the working class and those on the lower 3/4 (or 4/5th) of the tax base pay the bulk of the taxes.

Here's some reading for anyone interested in a little reality...

Lets begin with subsidies for OIL, GAS, & COAL AKA FOSIL FUELS (July 2019)

Here's one article about tax subsidies for the Trucking Industry (from 2015 so not too current) and cost of Trucking passed on to consumers, VS rail freight. It's based on THIS REPORT from the Congressional Budget Office. Again, from 2015. Though not current news, it gives you an idea of consuming,er and taxpayer costs of trucking VS rail freight.

AMTRAK, the point of this thread, is actually making an effort to help out, asking for 141 million dollar cut in their congressional budget allowances. This March 2019 REPORT /proposal is current for the immediate future budget needs.

Here are a couple Subsidy Tracker reports from FORD & General Motors and a look at GoodJobsFirst.org's home page where they track subsidies, tax breaks and corporate crimes and violations.

Here's an October 2019 report on Corporate tax breaks state by state

Here's the ITEP (Intsitutue on Taxation and Economic Policy) report page with many links on U.S. States' Taxation Policies from Jan 2019 and going backwards from there.

More reading from ITEP

Here's a April 2019 Forbes Article that takes a look at taxationansd some of the differences between Dems and Repubs, with links to various other articles, reports, a book, blog posts etc

Whether or not anyone chooses to take the time to read any of this is probably immaterial; the point is that taxation in this country (USA) is highly complex, and the overall general reality is there are huge tax breaks for most or all corporations, especially the so-called Forbes 500 companies who basically pay little or NOTHING, while the bulk of the tax burden gets shoved, more & more, onto the backs of the people (generally accepted as all or most of the people with some variations across the board) instead of the corporations.

Last edited by ricochetrider; 11/05/19 4:32 pm.

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Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
ricochetrider #789257 11/05/19 4:19 pm
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Originally Posted by ricochetrider


Excellent point. Thank you for sharing this!
The U.S. government subsidizes ALL major corporations at the expense of the tax payer. Now a days, the working class and those on the lower 3/4 (or 4/5th) of the tax base pay the bulk of the taxes.

Here's some reading for anyone interested in a little reality...

Lets begin with subsidies for OIL, GAS, & COAL AKA FOSIL FUELS (July 2019)

Here's one article about tax subsidies for the Trucking Industry (from 2015 so not too current) and cost of Trucking passed on to consumers, VS rail freight. It's based on THIS REPORT from the Congressional Budget Office. Again, from 2015. Though not current news, it gives you an idea of consuming,er and taxpayer costs of trucking VS rail freight.

AMTRAK, the point of this thread, is actually making an effort to help out, asking for 141 million dollar cut in their congressional budget allowances. This March 2019 REPORT /proposal is current for the immediate future budget needs.



Everything I read says the top few percent of wage earners pay the bulk of income taxes....Low income earners pay to little no income taxes and more often tan not get it all back as a refund.. . I can post links to back it up if you like...But I suspect no ones mind will be changed....


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
Hillbilly bike #789259 11/05/19 4:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Originally Posted by ricochetrider


Excellent point. Thank you for sharing this!
The U.S. government subsidizes ALL major corporations at the expense of the tax payer. Now a days, the working class and those on the lower 3/4 (or 4/5th) of the tax base pay the bulk of the taxes.

Here's some reading for anyone interested in a little reality...

Lets begin with subsidies for OIL, GAS, & COAL AKA FOSIL FUELS (July 2019)

Here's one article about tax subsidies for the Trucking Industry (from 2015 so not too current) and cost of Trucking passed on to consumers, VS rail freight. It's based on THIS REPORT from the Congressional Budget Office. Again, from 2015. Though not current news, it gives you an idea of consuming,er and taxpayer costs of trucking VS rail freight.

AMTRAK, the point of this thread, is actually making an effort to help out, asking for 141 million dollar cut in their congressional budget allowances. This March 2019 REPORT /proposal is current for the immediate future budget needs.



Everything I read says the top few percent of wage earners pay the bulk of income taxes....Low income earners pay to little no income taxes and more often tan not get it all back as a refund.. . I can post links to back it up if you like...But I suspect no ones mind will be changed....


Please do post links, that'd be great. I know I personally owed taxes this past year (2018) for the first time in my entire life. Granted, I have an extremely anomalous way of making a living, with sometimes as many as 35 #-2s (some of the W-2s cover multiple pay entities, IE payroll companies that multiple employers use) at the end of a working year. But most of my peers and friends across the board also owed tax money to the IRS in 2018. I've heard a few different things about why this happened from a few sources, including my pretty conservative H&R Block tax lady.... but I still don't fully understand how this happened- owing taxes to the IRS, after over 40 years of refunds.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
MikeG #789260 11/05/19 4:38 pm
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Time gentlemen: We all have our views on taxes, but this is not the place express them.

Re: Planes trains and motorcycles
ricochetrider #789264 11/05/19 5:03 pm
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Quote
but I still don't fully understand how this happened- owing taxes to the IRS, after over 40 years of refunds.


your tax person can explain this ... but only a certain amount of knowledge will seep through it before your eyes glaze over

it could be as simple as the amount withheld as a prepayment estimate from a salary
or your quarterly prepayments as a business estimate .
or if the full contract amount was passed through to you (1099) ... with no withholding

when you over-pre-pay ... you get a refund ... if you under pay , you write a check .
(maybe your tax bracket changed )

or if you are working for yourself ... only certain expenses are deductible ,
You are not taking them , or the line of work does not allow them .


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