BritBike Forum logo
BritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorThe Bonneville ShopBritBike Sponsor
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments.
Buy BritBike staff a coffee
Buy BritBike's staff a coffeeStill here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts..
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Member Spotlight
Grin
Grin
Fife,Scotland, UK
Posts: 114
Joined: August 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Richard77, Jon law, Honey Badger, puffinpower, Mr.Paul
10905 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
franko 102
quinten 63
Popular Topics(Views)
1,050,180 mail-order LSR
a word from..
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics68,044
Posts682,911
Members10,905
Most Online14,755
May 5th, 2019
Who's Online Now
47 registered members (Alan_nc), 356 guests, and 782 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
BSA or Triumph Rob North #787520 10/19/19 8:46 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
A
Andy Higham Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
Something about the lines of Rob North Triumphs has always bothered me, the angles of engine, frame and exhaust all clash badly. The BSA versions have the cylinders parallel to the front tubes and the exhausts


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK
British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787522 10/19/19 9:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,971
triton thrasher Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,971
I thought they were racers.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787523 10/19/19 9:24 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
A
Andy Higham Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
They are, and the BSA looks better


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787634 10/20/19 10:07 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,254
D
DMadigan Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,254
It is not the frame, it is the T150. It looks like a 1939 speed twin with another cylinder added on.
I think it was CZ that had the frame loop around the gearbox first. However, what North missed on the frame is the bracing of the headstock. Rickman had the bracing better with the lower end of the headstock braced by a single tube against the top tube cross brace forming a partial triangle.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Something more along these lines on the North would have been better:
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
The inverted J tubes on the North adds little strength to the headstock flexing backward.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787699 10/21/19 1:23 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,559
Mark Parker Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,559
The bottom frame looks really nice DM.

I modified a stock '70 A65 frame years ago. Running the two loops up to the steering head and used a crossbar between them to fit the stock brace like the Rickman. The engine was still too far back and even a longer swing arm didn't fix the handling. It was alright but could shake it's head under power on bumps.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


mark
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787731 10/21/19 6:54 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,254
D
DMadigan Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,254
Was this previous to your RGV bike? You must spend a lot of time modifying things.
This is the previous version of the aluminum Wenco frame:
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
It has a 1" wider swingarm pivot for more modern tyres and the V brace for the seat rails at the back of the tank. The steel frame seat rails flex quite a bit and they are welded to the mainframe.
I have to work more on the swingarm brace as it hits the shock diagonal tubes at full compression. I already moved the attachment point from directly behind the swingarm pivot to further up the loop. I need room for a K181 130-18 dirt track tyre.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787740 10/21/19 8:29 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 530
RPM Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 530
The Rob North triples were race bikes and graceful lines were not as important as the overall function of the bike. Rickman triples are worse than Rickman twins when it comes to steering one of them. Rickman road race frame have too much rake and wheelbase. At the time the Rickman frames were designed tires were still not that good. The long rake combined with the tradtional sweeping race lines of the time they worked okay but soon after they came out tires started getting much better allowing for less rake and more load on the front tire. As tires got better the "point and shoot" style of riding became the fast way around the track.
I can see DMadigan has the rake pulled back on the frame in the photo. Also the swingarm angle looks better than a Rickman.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #787744 10/21/19 9:26 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,559
Mark Parker Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,559
I had a T150v for many years from about '77. It ended up 880cc with bug bore 3 into 1, big valves and 32mm dellorto carbs. It ended up in an early VFR frame. It went really well. The A65 has better power and is lighter and better handling, with better brakes. I would have loved a Rob North frame for it.

Last edited by Mark Parker; 10/21/19 9:27 pm.

mark
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Mark Parker] #787782 10/22/19 2:35 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,016
tridentt150v Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by Mark Parker
I had a T150v for many years from about '77. It ended up 880cc with bug bore 3 into 1, big valves and 32mm dellorto carbs. It ended up in an early VFR frame. It went really well. The A65 has better power and is lighter and better handling, with better brakes. I would have loved a Rob North frame for it.

I remember the Trident at the Empire Strikes Back. Was in a Japanese alloy frame....I guess it was the VFR?

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Mark Parker] #788011 10/24/19 10:52 am
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,075
T
Tigernuts Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,075
Originally Posted by Mark Parker
I had a T150v for many years from about '77. It ended up 880cc with bug bore 3 into 1, big valves and 32mm dellorto carbs. It ended up in an early VFR frame. It went really well. The A65 has better power and is lighter and better handling, with better brakes. I would have loved a Rob North frame for it.


The A65 had better power than the 880 Trident? Am I alone in wondering what was wrong with the triple?


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788019 10/24/19 11:37 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
A
Andy Higham Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
The main thing wrong with the triples is the same thing that is wrong with just about every bike from BSA/Triumph/Norton/RE etc from mid sixties onwards, outdated designs and under developed.
Yes there were some good bikes but there could have been some really great bikes


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788020 10/24/19 11:39 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
A
Andy Higham Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,458
The road bikes should have used a derivative of the Rob North frame


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Tigernuts] #788083 10/25/19 1:38 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,016
tridentt150v Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by Tigernuts
Originally Posted by Mark Parker
I had a T150v for many years from about '77. It ended up 880cc with bug bore 3 into 1, big valves and 32mm dellorto carbs. It ended up in an early VFR frame. It went really well. The A65 has better power and is lighter and better handling, with better brakes. I would have loved a Rob North frame for it.


The A65 had better power than the 880 Trident? Am I alone in wondering what was wrong with the triple?

Marks A65 is a very powerful machine...……….

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/773092/1/exhaust-pipes
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/782021/1/the-what-if-a65-67hp-challenge

If ever I bought an A65 I would want his engine setup or similar.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788088 10/25/19 3:32 am
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,559
Mark Parker Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,559
The oil in frame bikes was a change to address induction noise for meeting noise standards. It made room for bigger and quieter air intakes. The Rob North frames could have given the same thing, but they were unorthodox, meaning odd looking to some, or exotic to others. Personally I think it was a big mistake building the T160 when it would have been possible to build an 860 Rob North triple instead. A bike able to directly compete with the Z900 and Ducati SS750/900. Even a limited number could have been effective. Café racers were becoming more widely popular and these things would have been the business.


mark
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Mark Parker] #788089 10/25/19 4:03 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,741
DavidP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,741
Originally Posted by Mark Parker
Personally I think it was a big mistake building the T160 when it would have been possible to build an 860 Rob North triple instead. A bike able to directly compete with the Z900 and Ducati SS750/900. Even a limited number could have been effective. Café racers were becoming more widely popular and these things would have been the business.

Many of us wondered the same thing. Norton built the JPS bikes, why didn't Triumph build a Slippery Sam replica for the US market? The North frame actually cost less to build than the stock frame.
Judging from the last issue of Triple Echo, most of the T160s ended up back in England after they didn't sell here.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788121 10/25/19 9:05 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,134
kommando Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,134
Quote
Many of us wondered the same thing. Norton built the JPS bikes, why didn't Triumph build a Slippery Sam replica for the US market?


A lot of JPN's got left in the showrooms and only 200 were built so that would have played a part in no factory Slippery Sam replicas being made.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788122 10/25/19 9:35 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,016
tridentt150v Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,016
I think it was a mistake to build the T160 as a 750cc...…...I think that building it as a classic bike was no big problem, most other bikes on the market were similarly presented [Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha and they sold heaps] except for some Italian bikes like Ducati, Laverda SFC and Guzzi Le Mans etc but at that stage they were not big sellers.
And in the day, you added ace bars and rear sets and you were a café racer, or high Z bars and you were a cruiser, or wide flat bars and you were a tourer etc etc, it really was that simple in that era.

Triumph could have offered variations [similar to what we have today with the Speedmaster, Thruxton and Bonneville etc], but I think this type of thinking was in the early conceptual stage and still some way off.

But they did miss the mark by not making it an 850 or 1000cc. But its all 'water under the bridge', most of it tears from all us tragics smile

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: tridentt150v] #788440 10/28/19 12:14 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,075
T
Tigernuts Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
T
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,075
Thanks for those links - an amazing machine and an incredible feat of tuning. I've posted a couple of questions on one of the threads for Mark, as this has got me curious. I forgot to ask whether the 97 BHP achieved was on straight petrol or other fuel.


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788445 10/28/19 2:48 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,254
D
DMadigan Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
D
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,254
"why didn't Triumph build a Slippery Sam replica for the US market?" - americans like choppers which is why we got the Hurricane with peanut tank and extended forks. Same reason we never got the "Home Market" tank on the twins.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788492 10/28/19 11:58 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,803
A
Adam M. Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,803
I read Slippery Sam used modified stock frame, not a Rob North frame like racers.
Hurricanes didn't sell and I'm sure S.S, replicas wouldn't sell either, OHC / DOHC engines with electric starters on paper sold better than performance in real life.
Remember my own reaction on first reading about Trident "what OHV engine with a kick starter?
Forget it."
And on the street they always look shoddy with oily, dirty looking engines and those strange looking mufflers rusting away.
So all the available money was spent on these nice, glittering and never braking Japanese bikes.

Re: BSA or Triumph Rob North [Re: Andy Higham] #788521 10/29/19 8:50 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,134
kommando Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,134
Slippery Sam was entered in Production classes, so had to have a standard frame.


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3