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Nova Classics 991cc kit going on #773658 05/14/19 6:27 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Just thought I'd share a couple of images of the kit.....
Note that I already had a Hyde 973cc kit on the bike. This meant that the 82mm stroker crank was already installed. So far it has been an easy install.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by tridentt150v; 05/14/19 6:32 am.
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Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #773664 05/14/19 7:55 am
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Esmerela Offline
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Hi

Lovely looking kit. What type of head gasket do they recommend, I presume the grey button shown in the piston are used in place of piston c-clips.

Best regards

Esnme


[Linked Image]

The older I get, the faster I was
Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #773668 05/14/19 9:50 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Composite looking head gasket supplied, could be a covseal, not sure??? And yeah, Teflon buttons for the gudgeon/wrist pins. They were supplied with the kit.

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #773686 05/14/19 2:11 pm
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Adam M. Offline
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Are sleeves any thicker than originals ?
What is the cost of the kit ?

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #773773 05/15/19 9:50 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Sorry, didn't mic/mike the sleeves, never thought to. But they did look at least as thick as std ones, maybe thicker.

Cost was $4.000AUD with new pillar bolts and head studs plus two head gaskets...that's around $3000USD give or take [I didn't look up the actual conversion rate sorry]. But if you were to do this you would need an 82mm stroker crank as well, so its not for the faint of heart.

Last edited by tridentt150v; 05/16/19 9:36 am.
Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #773813 05/15/19 4:33 pm
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Adam M. Offline
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To dear for me anyway, but looks very nice.
Do you have any idea what pistons and rings are used ?
Your Australian $ are very close to my Canadian $ in value.

Last edited by Adam M.; 05/15/19 4:35 pm.
Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #773901 05/16/19 9:36 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Yeah Omega forged using 2618A, Omega rings,3 piece oil [spring and top and bottom thin scraper], cast middle and chrome moly top ring. So a quality unit really.

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #782432 08/24/19 6:54 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Update
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by tridentt150v; 08/24/19 6:55 am.
Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #782863 08/28/19 12:12 pm
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Is anyone running without a rocker box gasket, just sealant?

The Nova Classic barrels seem to be higher, I have minimal adjustment left on my tappet adjusters. If I remove the rocker box gasket I will get a few turns back over the lock nut.
Alternatively I would be looking for custom pushrods, does anyone do them? Its a 991cc kit with Hyde pushrods [for his 973cc kit], AFAIK they are the longest [159.2mm] commercially available as it is [but would be happy the hear otherwise].
I also posted this on TOL, but got a limited response.

I had the motor assembled but have taken it back to the barrels, I need to solve this issue.

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #783047 08/30/19 7:33 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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OK, I've done a heap of 'dry' assemblies without PRT's but with pushrods.

I have rocker box gaskets that are 1.44mm and they are too thick, the adjusters are wound right down with only just enough room left for the locknut, no thread left over.
I also tried no gasket, and the adjusters are wound right up with no room to adjust clearances if it goes tight on me

Also the adjuster/valve line when the valve is half open is not correct with either of these set ups. This is critical when setting up the top end.

I have found a business - Copper Gaskets Unlimited in Arizona - where they make copper rocker box gaskets in various thicknesses. I have asked about getting 0.026"=0.066mm ones. From my 'dry' assemblies I believe that this thickness would be the closest to the Goldilock zone.
I will update when I get them and on the bike.
Just in case anybody is interested smile

One thing that really amazed me was the amount of movement you get and how critical the rocker box gasket thickness is to a build. 1.44mm of gasket thickness vs none is a difference of approx. 3/8"=10mm at the adjuster [estimated, I must actually measure for the record].

Last edited by tridentt150v; 08/31/19 2:45 am.
Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #783104 08/30/19 11:41 pm
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A back of the fag packet rough calculation.

Supposing the valve was vertical, and the rocker arm ratio was 1:1, with no gasket and clearance set to zero,
-then raising the rocker pivot by inserting a 1.44mm gasket would increase valve lash by 2.88mm.

But the rocker ratio isn't 1:1. I don't know what it is on a trident, but for the fag packet say 1.25:1.
So this increases the lash to 1.25 X 2.88 = 3.6mm.
Note that this is still assuming a vertical valve.

But the valve isn't vertical. I don't know what it is on a trident, but for the fag packet say it is at 45 deg to the vertical.
So 3.6mm vertical becomes 3.6/cos45 = 5.1mm lash.
That is that inserting the 1.44mm gasket increases lash by 5.1mm.

You can insert the true values for rocker ratio and valve angle to get a closer fag packet, but I think my guestimations are probably good enough to illustrate that you shouldn't get anything like a 10mm difference in lash between no gasket and the 1.44mm gasket.

I'm actually surprised that your rocker pins have that length of adjustment. Worth another look I think?

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #783114 08/31/19 2:41 am
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tridentt150v Offline OP
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Well, I do need to measure it up, but this is a pic of the adjuster all the way up and on the rock with a 1.44mm gasket. And I can confirm that without a gasket I would [again I didn't measure but it was tight] I would be lucky to have .010 thou clearance.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


It is every bit of 5.1mm
Maybe you need a better better ciggie packet :)…….I'll confirm when I measure it.

Last edited by tridentt150v; 08/31/19 5:50 am. Reason: Additional info
Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #783125 08/31/19 4:05 am
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Yes, I count 10 threads on the adjuster, which whether 26 or 24 tpi means ~10mm.
Doesn't add up.
I hope someone knowledgeable will illuminate. I stubbornly stand by my fag packet for the time being!
Could you do a similar pic with the adjuster wound onto the valve tip?

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #783215 09/01/19 12:40 pm
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Thinking about it a little more...

The exposed threaded length in your pic is roughly 10mm. The lash shown looks to be much smaller, perhaps about half, of that length.

However the locknut will take up roughly half of that threaded length. So the true amount of adjustment available is about 5mm.

Could it be that you are simply over-estimating the difference in lash, and that it is really as would be expected with/without the 1.44mm gasket? ie something like 5mm fag packet.

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #783246 09/02/19 1:24 am
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Could be, I'm too busy boom spraying to check for a couple of days....will get back to it later in the week.

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #784280 09/14/19 8:53 pm
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Did you get to the bottom of it?

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #784322 09/15/19 3:17 am
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Still waiting on 0.66mm thick copper rocker box gaskets from Arizona. Want to get the set up close before I make any fine measurements...…..its just too far away from anything for me to do anything yet.

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #786555 10/08/19 10:25 am
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OK, I installed the 0.66mm thick copper gaskets today. The adjuster to valve stem cover and angle are almost exact. Happy with the result. I maybe could have gone for the next thickness gasket 0.032"/0.81mm, and I might order a set and try them later but it may not improve what I have. Only thing I can say is that the gasket thickness miked up as 0.58 to 0.61mm overall, so slightly thinner than advertised...but I'm not complaining, it is just in case somebody else is thinking of using them.

The end game is when the valve is halfway open, the adjuster in pretty much directly in line with the valve angle. It will slide a bit to the front when the valve is closed, and inversely slide a bit towards the back of the stem when the valve is fully open, but the contact is still 100% on the stem tip so that is also very good.

Valve closed
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Valve halfway
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Valve open
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #786633 10/09/19 11:05 am
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Hello, following with interest as I am a few weeks from assembling my Williams / Nove kit. Would lash caps help here, can’t quite see from pictures whether you are using them or not. Richard

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #786668 10/09/19 11:41 pm
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No I'm not using lash caps. And don't need them anyway tbh. Not really a fan of lash caps, adding another variable to the valve train is not ideal IMO.
You could go with a 1.0mm thick rocker box gasket and lash caps I guess, but the gaskets I got from Copper Gaskets Unlimited from Arizona addressed my issues.
Just be aware that the barrels could be slightly higher and so you will need to address this in your build. My advice is to dry assemble and measure everything.
FYI sammytrident on TOL has a Nova 991cc kit and his went together with nil issues. He hasn't had the height difference I have had. In fact, I haven't had anyone else talk about this issue...so I must have been the unlucky one smile

Re: Nova Classics 991cc kit going on [Re: tridentt150v] #787107 Yesterday at 08:46 AM
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Up and going, have to go away tomorrow, but hope to get a ride in in the next few days.
Started first kick [ok I had 2 primers with the ignition off], then warmed up in the shed for 10 minutes before shutting down. Once cooled I redid the head and tappets etc and checked all the nuts and bolts, no oil leaks, PRT seals working fine, so happy with the build so far. Will update this thread once I do a 2-300km ride.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by tridentt150v; Yesterday at 08:47 AM.

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