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gavin eisler
gavin eisler
argyll. Scotland
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T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
#784177 09/13/19 5:28 pm
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Denis J Offline OP
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Hey All
I am looking to install this mint front fender back on a 1971 T120 that is missing the wire stays - it was torn the bike as they like to do spontaneously

I see there is a front fender bracket that is for the disc brake front forks. Part number 97-7004C

I am assuming it will fit - but I vaguely remember the T140 fork being wider than the T120 fork

Any thoughts on this? Any chance you all may have fork width specifications?

Last edited by Denis J; 10/02/19 1:27 am.

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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784180 09/13/19 5:38 pm
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Yes, the disc front end is wider by a good inch, at a guess. The mudguard blade might fit, but the bracket that goes between the fork legs won't.


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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784181 09/13/19 5:47 pm
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Denis J Offline OP
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Definitely looking to fit the bracket and letting the mudguard lay.
1 inch is a bunch.


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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784192 09/13/19 7:27 pm
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1 inch is a guess (from me), and it could be less, but it is certainly enough to make using the disc front end mudguard bracket a problem.


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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784196 09/13/19 8:09 pm
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Hi Denis J, Recently we were comparing front fenders on '69 Bonnie to my '73 Tiger. The fender itself looks pretty similar. Maybe the T140 type is slightly wider. The stays are bent very differently with the t120 going much closer to fender, while the T140 type are more spread. The brackets at fork leg side & bottom seem a different position also, especially the bottom.

If... the fender clears your fork boots I think you could make it fit. I've straightened bent stays & they seem pretty stiff, but can be bent. Especially if you have a narrow tubing bender like used with steel fuel lines. Or file some hardwood or hard plastic blocks to put in vise. Very easy to kink the tube when bending.

When aligning fender there is an optical illusion. The fender looks as if it's same distance from tire all the way around, but it's actually a fair amount farther from tire on front end.

I'll see John with the '69 next week. I can photo & measure if that will help.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784200 09/13/19 9:10 pm
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The disc brake forks are 7 5/8" center-center, the conical are 6 3/4" so you'd need to narrow the bracket 7/8". The bracket is about 0.080" thick steel, forms a U about 4 1/2" or 5" wide then spreads out to 7 5/8". It wouldn't be too hard to flatten the spreads 7/16" a side and narrow it. I think I have a spare bracket and bottom stay, PM me if you need them.

Eric


1971 T120RV (R.I.P.)
1973 T140V/TR7
1993 Ducati 900 SS
Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784213 09/14/19 12:45 am
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Not trying to be pedantic but the difference is between the conical drum front fork and the disc brake front fork NOT between the T120 and the T140.
T120s were made in 1973 and 1974 complete with disc brake, triplex primary chain and 6 bolt tappet inspection covers etc.
I speak with a little bit of knowledge as I have two 1974 T120s in my garage.
HTH

Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Tridentman #784227 09/14/19 2:35 am
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Denis J Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tridentman
Not trying to be pedantic but the difference is between the conical drum front fork and the disc brake front fork NOT between the T120 and the T140.
T120s were made in 1973 and 1974 complete with disc brake, triplex primary chain and 6 bolt tappet inspection covers etc.
I speak with a little bit of knowledge as I have two 1974 T120s in my garage.
HTH

Thanks Tridentman but I don’t think it makes a difference. I understand the disc brakes to be the same across the range..
How did you end up with a 74 T120? I delivered last year a customers 73 T140RV. Leftovers?


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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
BikeVice #784228 09/14/19 2:36 am
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Denis J Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BikeVice
The disc brake forks are 7 5/8" center-center, the conical are 6 3/4" so you'd need to narrow the bracket 7/8". The bracket is about 0.080" thick steel, forms a U about 4 1/2" or 5" wide then spreads out to 7 5/8". It wouldn't be too hard to flatten the spreads 7/16" a side and narrow it. I think I have a spare bracket and bottom stay, PM me if you need them.

Eric



Ah ha..makes sense. Thank you for the details.


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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
TR7RVMan #784229 09/14/19 2:37 am
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Denis J Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TR7RVMan
Hi Denis J, Recently we were comparing front fenders on '69 Bonnie to my '73 Tiger. The fender itself looks pretty similar. Maybe the T140 type is slightly wider. The stays are bent very differently with the t120 going much closer to fender, while the T140 type are more spread. The brackets at fork leg side & bottom seem a different position also, especially the bottom.

If... the fender clears your fork boots I think you could make it fit. I've straightened bent stays & they seem pretty stiff, but can be bent. Especially if you have a narrow tubing bender like used with steel fuel lines. Or file some hardwood or hard plastic blocks to put in vise. Very easy to kink the tube when bending.

When aligning fender there is an optical illusion. The fender looks as if it's same distance from tire all the way around, but it's actually a fair amount farther from tire on front end.

I'll see John with the '69 next week. I can photo & measure if that will help.
Don



Interesting. I hadn’t thought of trying a Pre oil in frame fender. I assumed oil in frame T120 to T140 for fitments.


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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784231 09/14/19 5:02 am
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Hi Denis, My apologies. I totally misread the year of bike as pre '71. Disregard what I was saying.

There is early T140 fender like mine with 3 stays & no bridge & later T140 that uses the bridge(97-7004) & a lower stay.

The early T140 fender uses bracket on the side of slider is simply a flat metal plate 97-4446. Front 2 stays bolt to that. Along the lines of a 1970 type fender & stays.

The lower stay for either T140 fender bolts to boss on axle cap. Somehow I was thinking the disc brake axle is larger diameter so axle caps don't interchange. Maybe someone can verify if they will interchange or not. In any case would be easy to bend up a L bracket to bolt lower stays to.

In any case I expect you should be able to bend bridge and/or stays to make fender fit.

I personally think the full fender looks better, for sure they help keep rider drier & the motor cleaner.

Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784243 09/14/19 10:35 am
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I wouldn't fit a long or short mudguard to a triumph without stays unless taking precautions

The t140 disc front stay mentioned is quite solid and acts as a fork brace as well. The t140D had a short mudguard with no lower stays but also incorporated a W shaped stiffener inside the rear of the guard to prevent vibration taking over.

Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784248 09/14/19 12:17 pm
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I can confirm this.
"The lower stay for either T140 fender bolts to boss on axle cap. Somehow I was thinking the disc brake axle is larger diameter so axle caps don't interchange. Maybe someone can verify if they will interchange or not. In any case would be easy to bend up a L bracket to bolt lower stays to. "
The disc axle is larger the later fork end caps with the mudguard stay mount do not fit earlier conical hub type forks.
Stud centres are also different.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 09/14/19 12:19 pm.

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Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784290 09/14/19 9:55 pm
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I also had a 74 T120 several years ago. Someone on this board bought it.





Bob M.
Re: T140 disc fender on T120 Drum fork? OIF Bikes
Denis J #784298 09/14/19 11:38 pm
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Dennis—- I bought my first 74 T120RV as my first restoration project after moving to US from UK.
I bought it from the late lamented Peter Wing of the Hudson Valley in NYS.
He had bought it from a sale.
Apparently the first owner used it for a couple of years and did 4600 miles on it.
Then he got married and the new wife said “No Motorcycles” so it went into a damp cellar for 30+ years.
I did a complete restoration and used stainless steel as far as possible–having seen the rust due to the damp cellar.
The second one I bought a couple of years ago from Fried Okra of this parish who was moving from VA to SC and had to thin his herd.
I think they made about 300 of the 74 T120s.
They are a nice bike— a buzzy 650 but with some of the advantages of the T140s.
However if you strip one down–be careful—-the cylinder head fixings are like the T140— but in Cycle thread!


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