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Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783110 08/31/19 1:50 am
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Originally Posted by David Kavanagh
The rotor came right off w/ the stator. I put it back on the crank and there's a little radial play. The key is firmly in the crank, so I assume the keyway in the rotor is a bit beat up. I hear that play between the rotor and crank is not desirable. What's the best course of action? Replace the rotor? I'll take the key out and measure it to see if it's the bit that's beat up.

I've never checked for radial play on the rotor, other than checking the center and the main body are tight. I think the torque on the rotor nut is 75 ft/lbs so I wouldn't worry about it too much (as long as the center is solid on the rotor itself)

Glad to hear you got the stator off. I used nylon locknuts when installing the stator on my current build.

Regarding pulling the motor out of the frame, I usually pull the transmission out first. Once you get the clutch off the shaft, it's only 6 nuts and a slight rap of the mallet to get it out (assuming you have the inner timing cover off, which I think you do). It's not a lot of weight but every bit helps.

When you're ready to pull the engine, double check that you've got the oil lines undone, either off the manifold or by removing the manifold entirely. For the rear mount, remove the two bolts holding the plates to the frame and loosen the other two so that the mounting plates aren't tight on the frame. Then remove the front and bottom mounting hardware. I usually have best luck by tilting the engine up in the front and pulling up. The rear mount won't allow much movement because of the swingarm so, depending how far down you're planning on taking the frame it does help to have the swingarm out first.

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Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783134 08/31/19 7:23 am
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Fecked are based in the UK which is why your delivery will be taking it’s time, they are normally quite quick at getting parts out


beerchug
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783216 09/01/19 1:58 pm
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Earlier in this thread the idea was presented for replacing the engine covers with failed chrome finish. Just be aware the inner timing case is matched to the crankcases, and has a match number stamped on the inner timing case and timing side crankcase. Keeping them together ensure precise alignment of the idler gear bushes.

You can use an orbital sander to remove the chrome starting with coarse grit paper working to fine and polishing. The outer covers could be replaced to save the tedious work involved.


mark
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: Mark Parker] #783238 09/01/19 9:43 pm
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Hi Mark, The outer covers and the valve cover have been chromed and all 3 are rough. I've heard a chroming place can also remove chrome, so I'll probably just have it done by them. I plan to have the chain guard re-chromed anyway, so it's not a wasted trip. Once the chrome is off the aluminum parts, I can get a nice polish on the side covers.


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: Mark Parker] #783247 09/02/19 2:04 am
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Originally Posted by Mark Parker
Earlier in this thread the idea was presented for replacing the engine covers with failed chrome finish. Just be aware the inner timing case is matched to the crankcases, and has a match number stamped on the inner timing case and timing side crankcase. Keeping them together ensure precise alignment of the idler gear bushes.


That's a great piece of knowledge that I'll be honest is new to me, makes 100% sense! never ever thought about it!


Current: 2 x 1966 A65S, 1 x 1967 A65SA, 1 x 69/70? A65LA space Y, 1 X D14/4 & 1 x B175
Past: 4 x 1976 T160V, 1 74/5 T150V, 83 model GSX 750 ESD, Z650, Katana 1100(Bathurst Model), 79 T140V, 70's TR6, 2 x 1971 BSA 250 Gold Stars, 50's 350 Goldie, A65 Spitfire semi basket case, 1965/6? A65 LC, Tiger 21 350 & a D14/4 Bantam, 175 Bridgestone Twin with Zimmerman discs!
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: John Goodwin] #783267 09/02/19 11:24 am
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Originally Posted by John Goodwin
Originally Posted by Mark Parker
Earlier in this thread the idea was presented for replacing the engine covers with failed chrome finish. Just be aware the inner timing case is matched to the crankcases, and has a match number stamped on the inner timing case and timing side crankcase. Keeping them together ensure precise alignment of the idler gear bushes.


That's a great piece of knowledge that I'll be honest is new to me, makes 100% sense! never ever thought about it!




Whilst Mark is right, it isn't the end of the world if they are not... However you need to ensure that both cases are line reemed when a new bush is installed. Although this is good practice in all instances.


beerchug
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783425 09/04/19 11:16 am
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https://youtu.be/2QkZDvvRQ7Q

The current state of disassembly. Just need to keep taking things apart and organized.


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783432 09/04/19 12:39 pm
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Oil Pump, release valve and HT lead kit ordered from SRM
Hastings rings, gaskets, seals and electronic ignition ordered from CBS


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783434 09/04/19 1:00 pm
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I think you've nailed it regarding those stator nuts: they were installed backwards. I've got a set of those nuts with the washer on top but I had never seen them as two separate pieces. The book doesn't call for lock washers (or any type of washer) so just find a new set of lock nuts and you're good to go.

Head: now that you have the springs off the valves, you can get a feel for the state of the guides. Insert a valve in each and see how much play and rocking you have between the valves and guides. These heads don't use valve seals so getting the right clearance is critical.

On your wheels:
- Spokes: I would find a way to clean them without scrubbing. You want to remove the surface corrosion without hurting the plating underneath. I would start with a rubbing with WD-40 first and see how they look afterwards.
- Hub: I recommend POR or Eastwood chassis coating for this type of work. It's offered in black and it bonds to rust, so you don't have to work too hard at cleaning up the surface first. I used this on my '72 HD Sportster and it's holding up pretty well.

One more note regarding your battery box: this appears to be part of the leftover '67 parts from your -Y model. The '68 should have a battery strap to hold the battery in place, not the bar up top.

Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783436 09/04/19 1:13 pm
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Yes, this is one of the '67 framed '68 models. I noticed in both the battery box and engine numbers. But, clearly marked as a MkIV special. According to wikipedia, 478 of these were built.


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783440 09/04/19 2:46 pm
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Aluminum cooking foil , crumpled into a ball with a little oil, use to rub the oxides off the spokes, it wont scratch. Painting the hub will be tricky.
Once you have the clutch off and remove the oil seal plate behind it you gain access to the gearbox sprocket and nut, this needs a deep 1.5 " AF socket.
As mentioned above . look for valve guide wear, if worn the seats will need to be recut if new guides are installed, this is a specialist thing. its rare to find them unworn, particularly the bronze type guides, Kibblewhite make good quality replacements, beware of cheaper pattern items.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783445 09/04/19 4:15 pm
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I stopped by to update the previous owner on my progress since he was keen to see the bike running again. He mentioned there were very few miles on the re-build. I'm hoping since I found valve guides in the spares box that the ones in there are in good shape. I'll check for play. Is there a measurement I should be taking or just a subjective "very little play is good"?


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783446 09/04/19 5:07 pm
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The fit for valves-to-guides is .002" to .003" so, anything perceptible is probably too much.

The shop manual states:
Check the valves in the guides, there should
be no excessive side play or evidence of carbon
build-up on that portion of the stem which
operates in the guide


Assuming you've marked everything and know which valve goes in which guide, you can check to make sure you have no binding and no tight spots also. The head is easily accessible so this is definitely something that you can feel good about going "best effort" and addressing later if needed.

Since the guides have been replaced in the past, though, I would ensure that you're not seeing signs of leaking around the guides themselves. This can't be done with the blasted head so you'll need to rely on evidence on top of the valves. I've been bit by this and it's extremely hard to diagnose. Filling the pocket around the guide with fluid like ATF might show extreme wear but doesn't always show you that there's a problem. Once the head is bolted and 170 lbs of vacuum is generated under the intake valve, though, then the oil in the head gets sucked down into the combustion chamber and you've got a recipe for a smoker. Look for a ring of carbon around the head of the valve but away from the stem.

I hope this is helpful.

Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783449 09/04/19 5:46 pm
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Look closely at the valve stems, wear is normally in a fore and aft mode at the lower section, you can mic this section and compare it too the upper unworn section. Clean and install the valve to its guide, move about 1/4" off the seat to the normal open position and check for waggle, brand new there is almost zero, after a few K miles expect a tiny bit more, if it moves more than say 2 mm then its worn a fair bit.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783459 09/04/19 8:20 pm
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You should be able to spin the valves (fitted with a drop of oil) but not rock them.

SRM do some real nice valves. They are also a fraction oversize compared to some of the spurious ones available (even by some
Reputable sellers). The good news about this is with an adjustable reamer down the guide you can resize the guide to suit the new valve and you’ve got second life out of a guide. Just takes a bit of time doing a bit at a time.


beerchug
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783555 09/06/19 12:09 am
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Tools from feked.com arrived. Clutch locking ring is perfect and does the job. "Clutch Centre Puller" is feked (see picture). threads didn't grab and ended up pulling bits of metal off the tops of the threads. I think (hope) the clutch center part is still fine.
Looked at valves. Measured no more than .13mm difference between largest and smallest part of any of the 4 valve stems. Used some Permatex Ultra Slick assembly lube. inserted the valves and felt no perceptible play, nice!
I lapped the valves and cleaned up the paste. Now, back to the springs. Found the springs had been installed by the last re-builder upside down. The large ones, that is... had the tighter coils at the moving end, not the lower side.
Also, note for future, never, ever use bead blasting to clean stuff. Grit is everywhere! Spent a ton of time cleaning out places and still not done. Compressed air and WD-40 sprayed in places to help wash grit out. I signed up for "vapor blasting", but I think the guy did bead blasting due to the toughness of the paint used. thanks for nothing! It'll take some time to properly clean out because I'm not assembling the valve gear with grit detectable!

Attached Files Screen Shot 2019-09-05 at 8.09.05 PM.jpg

'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783598 09/06/19 12:39 pm
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I think your clutch center is likely a bit cross-threaded, but not from anything you did with that tool. The threads are fine pitch and grit gets in there and can make it hard to align the tool to get it started.

Did you get the tool to bite down at all? It doesn't (shouldn't) take much to get it to pull the basket off the taper on the shaft, so if you can get the tool to hold on to a couple threads you can tighten down the center bolt and get it to pop. You'll likely need a new clutch center and new cush drive anyways.

If you can't get it to work, shoot me over a PM with your shipping address. I'll drop off my tool in the mail and you'll have it out in no time.

Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783612 09/06/19 3:34 pm
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Thanks for the offer, Marc. I may take you up on that. I did get the tool to tighten down, but perhaps the 1st time, not enough threads and then it was downhill. I'll try cleaning out the interior threads before another attempt. I almost ordered a tool from CBS, but spending money is far too easy. :-)

speaking of spending money, this Wassell ignition is really nice and tidy. Looking forward to a clean install!

Attached Files IMG_20190906_112943923.jpg

'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783615 09/06/19 4:35 pm
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Good choice of replacing the points. I've got a 25-year-old Boyer on my bike and I've only had to touch it is when reinstalling the rotor after working on the bike. They just work. I don't have experience with any of the other EI products but all you really need is a trigger pulse signal to the coils; it's really not complicated.

Keep in mind you'll likely need a new dual-plug coil or a pair of 6V ones wired in series.

Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783619 09/06/19 7:01 pm
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Just wondering whether the centre bolt is withdrawn enough when you're screwing the extractor into the clutch centre? Looks like only a couple of the extractor threads have engaged with the clutch hub, I would have expected a few more.

Good choice with the Wassell EI, I have heard good reports about them and they certainly appear sturdily built as well as being good value. FWIW I'm using Pazon Surefire on my A65 together with a dual plug coil which seems to work great.

Regarding the bead blast media removal, I suggest perseverance combined with the following method :-
- use a tap and dishwashing soap to clean out any threaded holes, flush with hot water
- use a small bottle/scrubbing brush and soap to clean out other holes and areas, flush with hot water
- rinse and repeat the above several times checking for any blast media in the sink as it comes out.
- Ultimately there should be no media coming out at which point you could progress to using a jet wash to blast every hole, recess and thread etc.
- then use compressed air to blow through every hole, recess etc.

Repeat the above until you are satisfied no more media remains.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783620 09/06/19 7:17 pm
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Thanks, Gunner. I'm resigned to using soapy water to wash the head at this point. I can't be dealing with grit in there!


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783621 09/06/19 7:51 pm
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Turn those duff threads off the tool and start again. The tool is designed to be sacrificial against the hub.

Bead blasting is good, can leave a dimpled finish but still a good finish. Had it been stripped it might not be the problem it is now, had it been stripped down the blaster may have sealed off the vital parts with plugs, some do but many do not


beerchug
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: Allan Gill] #783625 09/06/19 8:39 pm
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The guy said "no, you don't need to take the valves out". I'm thinking, cool, get the valve faces clean as well. live and learn!


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #783743 09/08/19 1:15 am
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Bead blasting is a great way to fill your engine with crap. You'll have to spend hours getting the bead out.
Those Vape ignition systems are good.
The clutch puller must be tightened hard into the centre before putting any weight on the extracting bolt.
Then you just do it up to around 25 lb. Then hit the bolt with a hammer, the jolt will normally free the centre.
If it doesn't, then heat the centre up and try again. The puller is really to put some weight on the centre
not to actually extract it. Some can be a complete b'stard to remove, those pullers are mostly pretty crap.
I made a special one that sits around the centre and doesn't rely on the thread.

Re: Restoring (to a point) my '68 BSA Spitfire Mk4 [Re: David Kavanagh] #784013 09/12/19 12:37 am
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Was able to measure end-play in the crank. about .00005 inches, so within the .00015 tolerance. cool. Trying to get the gauge configured to measure play in the bush.


'68 BSA Spitfire MkIV (w/ '67 numbers)
'81 Yamaha XJ550 Seca
'90 Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP
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