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Richrd
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#781905 08/18/19 10:52 pm
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TJD Offline OP
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I had a ride on a Commando yesterday and it had been a while since I had so I had forgotten how nice the gear change was, so I would like to know if there was anyway, tricks of the trade etc, that could make my '68 Trophy feel like that?
Clutch is adjusted properly, type F in the chaincase, EP 80 in the box. I did read in the manual that 50 weight oil was the oil to use but was advised that modern EP 80 was the same viscosity.
Soooo am I just clutching at straws or is it possible?
And yes I could just buy a Commando but I have enough multies in the garage although a nice 48 B33 rigid would be nice!
Thanks

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...do not know man; I have a 48 and all ok with the gear change; then my 79 is even better. The 78 too; then I used a 70 T120; a 59 350 and a 64 500 and worked fine too.
May be you have a worn selector or the "fingers" are somewhat rounded so the engage is not the best ¿?

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just go to a 7 plate conversion, featherlite cable and a good clutch basket with minimal wear/notches and you will feel the difference....do a search on here, plenty of past discussions on it.

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Might just be the reversed shift pattern. I remember when I fit rear-set pegs to my '74 Trident, I was pleasantly surprised by how much better it shifted with the lever flipped round.
It also helps to be certain that the primary chain is properly adjusted.


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I got a huge improvement when I went to belt drive on my Trident, I have nil gearchange or neutral selection issues.

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With a bike of the age, you can bet there'll be multiple things contributing to the problem. I'd pull the box and clutch and go through it.

Pay particular attention to the layshaft end float. Some of the best feeling gearboxes are those that have this clearance set.

The mechanism in the outer cover is prone to rust. Polish it up on a wire wheel. Replace the 2 main springs.

Getting the clutch to work well is part of the secret to nice shifting. The 7plate will help if you're up to it.

75W90 oil might be worth a try. I've had good results on a variety of vehicles. Especially true if the box improves as it warms up.

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You could put in a Commando clutch, then it would feel the same.
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Hi TJD, A few in this & RAT group have mentioned how wear in the spider of cush hub can effect clutch operation, both drag & slip. This is besides the well know notching of the grooves in basket & hub.

2 thoughts. First the Norton has large dogs similar to Triumph 5 speed, your bike has spline type dogs, so they will never feel the same. Secondly, don't overlook how much wear in cush hub spider effects clutch operation & drag. I'm still learning about how much wear is too much...

I recently had personal experience with this. I've done a lot of clutches with very good results. But the spider & grooves were ok, minimal wear. On my '73 Tiger I've had Hyde 7 plate for a long time. I cover 5k a year so I've learned a few things, but have much more to learn. So I installed 7 plate & cush hub rubbers, 650 springs. All was well for a long time. Then I was getting clack from clutch & some drag. I found rubbers deteriorated & notches in grooves. I replace rubbers, filed grooves smooth, which widened them a fair amount. New Hyde 7 plate. Spider had a fair amount of wear... But all worked fairly good. Not perfect, but was very acceptable. Covered 7k more miles like this & the clack started again. Sounded like bad rubbers. I decided to let it for a while. Some hundreds of miles latter I noticed the clatter starting as well as the clack. Observing this for a few hundred miles & attempting to diagnose noisy very slowly got worse.

I did rubbers again. This time the wear on spider arms was very bad. The wear on back plate of cush hub was very bad. The total gap of the basket thrust washer was
.038" + with new thrust washer! The chain didn't measure very bad on bench, but tensioner had a lot of arch. Tension was verified good often & I could not see rub marks from chain. With new rubbers the hard clack was gone, but the horrible rattle remained. I covered another 60-100 miles attempting to get a definitive diagnosis. No luck. Oil pressure of motor tested good. Noise sounded like right from clutch exactly. Pulling lever or putting into gear no change. Made rattle riding or standing still, but hot motor only. Cold, no noise. Noise came gradually during warm up.

I will not throw parts at bike! However there comes a time when I must do something as an educated guess. All the parts in primary had some wear to very bad wear.

I decided to replace everything except crank sprocket, I mean everything. It fixed the noise 100%. The most shocking part to me was how much difference new cush hub & basket made. This time used Aerco 7 plate, with all smooth steel plates. (Do not roughen the smooth steel plates with 7 plate kits. Always soak friction plates with oil before install with 7 plate kits). Trust me on this.

As I said I've installed several 7 plate kits on used baskets & hubs so had a good baseline of what to expect. However, this was the first time I did with all new parts. The 7 plate kits work really, really good with used parts, but with the new hard parts it's shocking at how well it works. Not a hint of drag, even smoking hot. Pulling lever 1 full second gives silent engagement into 1st. Hot shifting trans fully heat soaked after 70 miles is the best it's ever been. So far I'm feeling really good about the Aerco clutch.

Keep in mind still it's a Triumph, not Norton, but it's the best a Triumph will get.
Don


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TJD Offline OP
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Thanks for all the help. Did try and post a reply a while back but computer decided to delete the previous post two words from the end and I was a bit angry with it. In other words the dog ate my home work! Thanks again.


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