BritBike Forum logo
BritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorThe Bonneville ShopBritBike Sponsor
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments.
Buy BritBike staff a coffee
Buy BritBike's staff a coffeeStill here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts..
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Member Spotlight
ShearedCrank
ShearedCrank
New York
Posts: 43
Joined: January 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
B. Hunt, JM Ahumada, Michael nelson, [email protected], Bryan Holmes
10823 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
franko 145
NickL 76
DavidP 69
reverb 55
Popular Topics(Views)
972,285 mail-order LSR
a word from..
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics67,359
Posts677,164
Members10,823
Most Online14,755
May 5th, 2019
Who's Online Now
64 registered members (AML), 451 guests, and 758 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
TLS front brake #782905 08/28/19 8:49 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
1970 A65 Lightning.

I have recently fully disassembled the brake and cleaned and lubricated the moving parts. I reused the brake shoes as they seemed to be in good condition and the hub brake surface looks clean and true, probably been skimmed.

When applying the brake ( bike stationary in garage its not running yet) I can see the brake anchor plate rocking in the hub.

With the anchor plate nut fully tightened I can rock the plate which doesn't seem correct ? so I tried putting a washer behind the nut, and this stops the play.

Is there any reason why a washer is not fitted here ?

Ian

Attached Files 20190828_201209.jpg20190828_201031.jpg20190828_201005.jpg
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK
British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782913 08/28/19 9:35 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,974
Gordo in Comox Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,974
Is the nut running out of threads? I cannot tell from your middle photo how much thread is exposed. I looked at a TLS brake and with the brake plate fully pushed in against the inner race of the bearing there only threads showing on the spindle where it comes out. When installed the nut makes the plate tight.

You should not need a washer unless there is a lot of wear on the surface of the plate.

Gordo


The roadside repairs make for the best post ride stories.
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782918 08/28/19 9:52 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Allan Gill Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Just given me a thought Gordo. Is it the right hub? If an early cast hub is used (without the flange behind the brake plate area) then you need a spacer between the brake plate and hub.

More likely that you don’t but it would have same issue.


beerchug
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782926 08/28/19 10:47 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Just had a quite look, I don't think I'm running out of thread. When I push the brake plate on by hand the machined boss on the plate is engaging with the wheel bearing.

There is a little bit of clearance in the fit of the centre of anchor plate and the axle but not excessive.

I'm thinking the small size of the anchor plate boss and the little bit of clearance in the fit on the axle, is stabalised more with the washer ?

Do the hub and anchor plate look like a correct matching pair?

Ian

Attached Files 20190828_232214.jpg20190828_232144.jpg20190828_232132.jpg
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782927 08/28/19 10:51 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Allan Gill Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Hub and brake plate are both correct.

Do you have any engineers blue which you can put on the 2 machined faces of the brake plate?

Also does the nut thread all the way down without the brake plate on?


beerchug
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782929 08/28/19 11:05 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
I'll do some testing tomorrow Allan, I have got engineers blue its finding finding it that will be the problem.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782932 08/28/19 11:50 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,555
Ignoramus Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,555
the tendency for the nut to come undone (or lossen) is a common problem with the TLS brake.......when you stop and think about it and consider the amount of lever force trying to undo the nut its not real;y a surprise......the lug on the brake plate is never a good fit into the forks so it will rattle about.........i got sick of the rattling and used a beer can shim .......next thing im going to try is a grub screw , that should stop is working loose ........maybee


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782971 08/29/19 7:35 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
This is not a case of the nut working loose as the bike hasn't moved under it's own power for over 20 years. However I can see there is a good chance of that happening. I think a bit of thread lock would help.

Regarding the loose fit of the anchor plate on the fork slider lug, i was wondering if anybody had a good solution for that. ? Or just leave it as it is?

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782976 08/29/19 10:24 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Just out of interest the nut has a slight raised bearing section on the base is this the correct nut for this location.?

Attached Files 20190829_102402.jpg
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782980 08/29/19 11:33 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,992
kommando Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,992
Yes, correct nut, I put that side to the brakeplate.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782981 08/29/19 11:39 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 539
M
MarcB Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
M
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 539
Is the looseness at the axle or at the tab and groove? If it's at the tab, I would imagine you could fill the gap there, which won't affect the rest of the brake the way a washer would. Maybe a beer can shim or a bit of JB Weld sanded down. I doubt it's very large a gap.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #782992 08/29/19 1:54 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
I only had one main issue with the front brake which was is the brake plate not sitting tightly against the wheel bearing and the plate rocking very slightly when I applied the brake. The retaining nut was done up very tight but the plate still rocked.

It stopped rocking when I put a washer under the nut.

Anyway [/b] I have found the reason why [b] when I photographed the nut to show the raised bearing surface on the nut, I cleaned the face of the nut up on an flat abrasive surface. Hence it looks very clean in the photo.

Well there must have been a bit of damage to the raised surface before cleaning, that I didn't see. Playing around with the nut and washers today I refited the nut without a washer and it tightened up the brake plate nice and flush and stopped the rocking.

So it must have been a damaged or non-flush nut face.

Thanks for all your help.

Tips on shimming the brake tap on the fork slider would be appreciated.

I didn't find my engineers blue but I did find my father's WW2 millitory compass 🙂

Ian

Attached Files 20190829_144302.jpg
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783002 08/29/19 5:40 pm
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 10
A
Airman49 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 10
I have the same problem with the TLS brake on my - 68 Spitfire, so now I will take a closer look at this. Thanks all smile

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783010 08/29/19 8:16 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,843
R
raf940 Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
R
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,843
couple layers of beer can shim on tab fixed my 68 A65


1972 Triumph T120
1968 BSA A65
1968 MGB Roadster
1979 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
1969 Honda Mini Trail
1939 farmall f30 tractor
2004 Honda Shadow Aero
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
1975 yamaha xs650b
1972 Norton commando
2 olive drab WWII military bicycle replicas
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783016 08/29/19 9:05 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Allan Gill Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
At least you found something very important in the process. The amount of poorly made nuts for these bikes is unreal now, in many cases if you don’t have a lathe you will never get the part to fit properly.


beerchug
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783020 08/29/19 9:57 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
A lathe would be nice to have, I just cant justify buying one at this time. If I restore more old bikes it would probably become economically viable.

I totally agree that the quality control on many remanufactured parts is very poor. I've had to send many parts back.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783022 08/29/19 10:30 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,778
A
Adam M. Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
A
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,778
I took my slider to a welder to build up a prong to fit tightly in my brake plate and it was the last step to make this brake really exceptional.
However it took me 2 to 3 years to rectify all the problems I had with this 70 BSA front brake.
Oval hub, shoes linings not thick enough to work with a hub, the big nut constantly unscrewing, linkages - it took some time to make it working well.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783090 08/30/19 9:03 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Just a couple more brake related questions:-

Is it worth putting thread lock on the brake plate retaining nut ?

My 20 year old brake shoes look unused (no glazing), however, they are only riveted at the front and back of the lining and stuck on the shoe with what looks like shellac type adhesive ..... is this normal ?

Ian

Attached Files 20190830_215619.jpg
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783098 08/30/19 11:07 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 308
N
NickL Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
N
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 308
Those old shoes are proper asbestos based ones, much better than the modern rubbish.
I had a few sets of the linings but i have to rivet them as it's illegal here for brake shops to
bond the asbestos based linings, in fact they must not sell or have anything to do with them at all.
Anyway if they are riveted properly, they work very well.
Apparently Villiers do a modern type lining that is supposed to be acceptable, but you have to send
your shoes to them for fitting/relining. I'll just use my asbestos based ones until i run out.
Bring back leaded petrol as well!

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783111 08/31/19 1:57 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 539
M
MarcB Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
M
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 539
Originally Posted by Ianbuck
My 20 year old brake shoes look unused (no glazing), however, they are only riveted at the front and back of the lining and stuck on the shoe with what looks like shellac type adhesive ..... is this normal ?

Brake shoe bonding using adhesives is regular practice. As long as they adhesive is rated for the correct temperature, it works well.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: NickL] #783113 08/31/19 2:16 am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,555
Ignoramus Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,555
Originally Posted by NickL
Those old shoes are proper asbestos based ones, much better than the modern rubbish.
I had a few sets of the linings but i have to rivet them as it's illegal here for brake shops to
bond the asbestos based linings, in fact they must not sell or have anything to do with them at all.
Anyway if they are riveted properly, they work very well.
Apparently Villiers do a modern type lining that is supposed to be acceptable, but you have to send
your shoes to them for fitting/relining. I'll just use my asbestos based ones until i run out.
Bring back leaded petrol as well!


AND bring back trichloroethyline (trike tank) cleaning........


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783405 09/04/19 4:31 am
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 824
BrizzoBrit Offline
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 824
I find on mine the nut seems to bottom on the thread, leaving just a small amount of play. I had one that I pulled apart and it had a washer behind the nut. These washers do not need to be thick. Adding a washer will allow you to tighten the nut onto the backing plate which will then be seated be seated against the bearing. I have washer dimensions somewhere, but not with me. The one I originally used sat outside the small step on the back of the nut. I think I lost that one and use something else now. I thought it was a purpose made original washer, but it cannot be found in any parts book.

You will never stop the rattle unless you can tighten the backing plate onto the bearing inner race. Of course you can use beer can shims and all the other work arounds. I use a very thin (it's maybe 1/16" thick) washer. Yes, that is enough. It seems to be the nut binding on the very last bit of the thread. Nut will never stay tight unless you can tighten it up against the backing plate. Best approach is washer, bit of blue loctite and tighten the nut using a deep socket or tube spanner. I use an old fork leg to hold the axle. I found the nut eventually works loose unless you use the blue Loctite.

Ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783413 09/04/19 8:25 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
I found that flattening the face of the nut with some abrasive paper on a flat surface stopped the rocking brake plate. Fortunately I have enough thread on the axle to tighten the nut.

When I have the bike ready to use regularly on the road I will put some locktite on the nut thread.

I'll also get some rivets and add them to the brake shoes, seeing half of them missing and not knowing how they were glued on, is not giving me full confidence in them.

Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783456 09/04/19 7:50 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Allan Gill Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,826
Not trying to teach you how to suck eggs but ensure you get proper rivets for shoes. The Work Shop manual shows this.


beerchug
Re: TLS front brake [Re: Ianbuck] #783464 09/04/19 9:17 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
Ianbuck Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
OP Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 168
I'm of a age Allan where many cars were drum brakes all round and you could line them yourself. I recall having punches to flare the rivet over. Then chamfering the leading edge of asbestos based lining without a care in the world.

Happy days (not).


Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 

Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
BritBike Sponsor
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3