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Barn Find Beeza #782227 08/22/19 2:49 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I picked up this A65L last weekend. It is a 1967 model and has sat for 20 years in a neighbor's garage. All I've done is give it a good wash and a visual inspection. The engine turns over on the kickstart, but I have not attempted anything on it yet.

I'm curious about the front fork. The PO said something about Betor forks, but didn't know much (anything) about them. Does anyone know about them?

Also, if the eagle-eyed notice anything about the bike, I'd be grateful for any/all comments. Although I'm familiar with bikes from the 80s on, I know nothing about BSAs of this period.

Last edited by Psychopasta; 08/22/19 2:52 pm.
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Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782231 08/22/19 3:14 pm
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kommando Offline
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Stay away from jet washing old bikes in water in future, they are not sealed very well so the water is now lurking inside. An oily rag would be better, cleans just as well and leaves a protective layer. For now leave it out in the hot sun so it dries off, you may need to remove some covers to get all the water out.

Your front wheel is BSA but the fork legs and triple tree are from something else

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782234 08/22/19 3:26 pm
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Allan Gill Offline
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Mazzochi?

Engine is 70 or later, Although looking at the barrel it could even be 69' (later barrels have bigger studs with 12pt nut mounting, the barrels are cutaway on the bottom fin to accomodate this.... pre 90 dont)


beerchug
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782269 08/22/19 10:06 pm
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gavin eisler Offline
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TT100s , decent forks, the good 8" single leading shoe front brake , a well worn saddle , 2 into one pipes and later Concentrics with a twin pull maybe Tomasellii twistgrip ( would have been monos in 67). As Allan says a 70 or 71 motor with the early no fins rocker cover , head must be 70 or earlier , twin carbs no tach drive , possibly A65 T with a lightning head Someone enjoyed this bike. All good mods , could be a fun bike to ride. The shocks look like early Jap, change them .

Last edited by gavin eisler; 08/22/19 10:10 pm.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
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Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782294 08/23/19 3:48 am
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Danam Offline
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wow, that's a barn find?? It's way better than mine! Good one!

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782344 08/23/19 4:13 pm
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Adam M. Online Content
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+1 for the fun looking and riding bike, Betor forks were more advance and better working than 67 originals ( really crude ), carbs will be in need of cleaning, charging system and electric loom has to be checked, compression is probably low, but nothing good trashing on the road wouldn't cure. Seat has to be rebuild with a new foam and probably cover.
What are your plans for a bike ?

Last edited by Adam M.; 08/23/19 4:14 pm.
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782347 08/23/19 4:37 pm
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by Psychopasta
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I picked up this A65L last weekend. It is a 1967 model and has sat for 20 years in a neighbor's garage. All I've done is give it a good wash and a visual inspection. The engine turns over on the kickstart, but I have not attempted anything on it yet.

I'm curious about the front fork. The PO said something about Betor forks, but didn't know much (anything) about them. Does anyone know about them?

Also, if the eagle-eyed notice anything about the bike, I'd be grateful for any/all comments. Although I'm familiar with bikes from the 80s on, I know nothing about BSAs of this period.


It's definitely a "Bitsa"; the forks, rocker cover, etc show that, so that sort of frees you up to do what you like with it. I'd make a close-to-stock rider out of it if it were mine. Get the frame and engine numbers so you know what parts books to order from.

If it were sitting in my garage right now, I'd take the primary cover and outer timing cover off and look and see what's in there. I'd do a leak-down check on the cylinders, adjust the valves, I'd pull the sump plate and do a crank end-play check, and would pull the oil tank and get the 20 years worth of sludge out of it.

If the crank isn't loose, the cylinders have reasonable compression, and the chains and such look good, I'd fill it up with oil and gas and enjoy it; otherwise, fix what's worn and go from there.

Lannis


Play stupid games ... Win stupid prizes!
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782414 08/24/19 1:52 am
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Hey Lannis, are you the same Lannis who posts on WildGuzzi?

Last edited by Psychopasta; 08/24/19 2:21 pm. Reason: grammar Nazi
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782416 08/24/19 1:58 am
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Thanks everyone!

My plans are pretty close to what Lannis said. I need to get the wheels off and look at the brakes, as I know nothing about drums anymore. I'll also pull the forks, which I believe are Betor, and just see what they are. I'm imagining at the least they'll need new seals and oil, but I just have no idea what I'll find. It also needs speedo, horn, headlamp...all the boring stuff.

I'm looking at a fairly minimal restoration, but you know how it goes once you start poking and prodding.

- Pasta

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782417 08/24/19 2:23 am
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I'm surprised no one has brought up the old sludge trap bugaboo. Ok, there's a sludge trap in the crankshaft. If the bike was run a lot with dirty oil, and/or stored for a long period of time with dirty oil in it, particularly in a cold damp environment, the sludge trap could be full of sludge. The sludge trap runs through the crankpins, so if it is clogged, oil will not reach the big end bearings.

What you find when you remove the sump plate from the bottom of the crankcase will be an indication of how the bike was maintained. If it looks pretty good, you may decide to take a chance and run it as is. Unfortunately, clearing the sludge trap requires a complete engine tear-down.

I agree this looks like a fun project. The front forks are a nice upgrade, performance-wise; the originals leave a lot to be desired. In addition to what's already been said, the rocker cover is pre-'67, and the fuel tank is post-'67.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782422 08/24/19 3:28 am
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Thanks Mark. Seems to me that a sludge trap that needs the engine to be torn down to get at defeats the point of a sludge trap. You'd ideally be able to clean it without the engine teardown. But what do I know?

I'm getting used to the idea that the engine may need to be torn down anyway, but I would like to get her running first so I at least know what sounds she makes.

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782444 08/24/19 1:53 pm
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Nick H Offline
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I tore down a perfectly fine Triumph to check the sludge trap only to find it perfectly clean and no witness marks on the crank to indicate that it had ever been touched. Peace of mind.
Someone commented to me that in here in the US we use bikes recreationally unlike in Britain where they are more commonly the primary transportation. Helps to know some history of the bike but if not, I wouldn't take chances.


1966 BSA Lightning
1967 Triumph "Choppa"
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782448 08/24/19 2:12 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Hey Nick, thanks for that. I'm British originally, now in the good ol'US and you're right about bikes being used as transport, but only bikes of this vintage. Things like a Lightning would definitely have been working beasts, and not garage queens dripping in chrome :-)

Last edited by Psychopasta; 08/24/19 2:23 pm. Reason: Typo
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: gavin eisler] #782450 08/24/19 2:19 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
TT100s , decent forks, the good 8" single leading shoe front brake , a well worn saddle , 2 into one pipes and later concentrics with a twin pull maybe Tomasellii twistgrip ( would have been monos in 67). As Allan says a 70 or 71 motor with the early no fins rocker cover , head must be 70 or earlier , twin carbs no tach drive , possibly A65 T with a lightning head Someone enjoyed this bike. All good mods , could be a fun bike to ride. The shocks look like early Jap, change them .


Thanks Gavin, and Allan.

The engine number pulls up as 67, so I'm assuming that this engine has been heavily modded. Judging from the looks of the bike, and the fact that it has no instruments, the choke cables are gone etc, I think its primary use was not on the road but flattracking and general hooning around on.

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782451 08/24/19 2:27 pm
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kommando Offline
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As its a Y it may be one of those 69's with a 67 number and the engine is not heavily modded.

Read this thread

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=523437&page=29

Note there are Y bikes and -Y bikes and not all are the same.

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782462 08/24/19 5:43 pm
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gavin eisler Offline
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Certain elements of the motor are certainly 1970, eg the top entry clutch cable and what looks like bi hex barrel flange nuts on 3/8" studs. Read the thread kommando linked.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782465 08/24/19 6:19 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Indeed! Thank you very much guys, lots of reading and learning ahead of me.

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782569 08/25/19 6:47 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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I have a question on compression testing. The engine turns over on the kickstart, but does not run yet. Should I put some oil in the top of the cylinders to help seal the bores when I test the engine compression?

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782570 08/25/19 6:51 pm
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Nick H Offline
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It will most likely give a higher reading than without the oil but most people say cold compressions tests are worth much.


1966 BSA Lightning
1967 Triumph "Choppa"
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782571 08/25/19 6:51 pm
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Nick H Offline
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It will most likely give a higher reading than without the oil but most people say cold compressions tests aren't worth much.


1966 BSA Lightning
1967 Triumph "Choppa"
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782574 08/25/19 7:08 pm
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by Psychopasta
Hey Lannis, are you the same Lannis who posts on WildGuzzi?


As far as I know, I'm like Tigger : I'm The Only One!

Lannis


Play stupid games ... Win stupid prizes!
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782578 08/25/19 7:31 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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I thought it must be you. I'm the same Psychopasta as over there...

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782581 08/25/19 8:41 pm
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Mark Z Offline
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Originally Posted by Psychopasta
Thanks Mark. Seems to me that a sludge trap that needs the engine to be torn down to get at defeats the point of a sludge trap.


When these things were built, the expected time-to-overhaul was 10-15K miles, 20K at most. With proper maintenance, the sludge trap would not fill up in that span. They were also not planning on bikes sitting idle for 20 years.

The sitting idle is a big part of the problem. In one engine I tore down, the sludge in the trap had the consistency of a wax crayon, which can only have occurred from sitting over a long period of time, possibly in an adverse environment.

But again, take a reading on what you find in the sump; if it's not excessively grungy, it may be safe to run the engine as is.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782590 08/25/19 10:13 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Fair point Mark. I have a feeling the engine will need to be torn down. It looks like the bike has been well (ab)used as a tracker. I'll be draining the fluids and having a looksee soon.

Re: Barn Find Beeza [Re: Psychopasta] #782686 08/26/19 8:06 pm
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Psychopasta Offline OP
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Took the tank and seat off to get a closer look. The old girl does look a bit knackered:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and can you believe it? No toolkit!
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

But basically sound. I do not like the exhausts that it has. Note how they are held onto the head:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and the way they go below the frame rails:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

You can see why it has no center stand, and I'm going to have to remove the exhausts in order to be able to support the bike on its frame. Nice use of a piece of wire to keep them connected!

Next thing: I can find no evidence of a frame number:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Took off the side panel. I have three of the four Oddie screws
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Does anyone have any idea why it has three condensors?
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

In other news, the tank is in good shape. A few small dents, any suggestions fro removing them?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Though all the mounting rubbers are more depressed than Marvin the paranoid android. All thoughts and observations gratefully received

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