BritBike Forum logo
BritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorHepolite PistonsBritBike Sponsor
Upgrade to: Gold Membership | Premium Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
Dave Martin
Dave Martin
Antigua
Posts: 117
Joined: December 2018
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
a word from..
Manuals on DVD (Shipping included)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
battery and kilometers
#782237 08/22/19 4:17 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
reverb Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
Hello; I bought a gel battery a bit more than a year ago and the other day I needed to buy a new one. Only about 7000kms or so. In my opinion, is not too much.
Seems no point to spend more money in a gel battery to change it every year...

This batteries have a light on the top that shows how discharged or charged are them. In first instance I thought about the alternator not charging right and/or the heated gloves but I think that 2.2A of the heated gloves plus low beam light and tail light riding at 4200RPM could be good for the RM24.

What s your opinions?

Thanks

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782268 08/22/19 9:31 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Not all batteries are equal. An AGM (absorbent glass mat) is a good way to go. They are sealed and like a lead acid but have a matting between the plates - or as I understand it. I’ve had them last years providing the battery is left fully charged.

My current battery is Gel and it’s been a-ok. But it’s the second one in 3 years.... but that’s because it hasn’t had much use (although the AGMs lasted much longer)


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782279 08/22/19 11:51 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
reverb Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
...the old and new are the same and you can see from the top those absorbent clothes; so may be are AGM?
I did not know about that but are all China crap

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782308 08/23/19 7:55 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,646
Likes: 31
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,646
Likes: 31
Fit a volt meter, then you can see if you are killing the battery by under or over charging.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782322 08/23/19 1:06 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,176
Likes: 12
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,176
Likes: 12
I had bad results with AGM batteries until I got rid of the zener diode and installed a Tympanium rectifier/regulator. There is evidence that the zener diode does not regulate the charging voltage accurately enough for an AGM battery.

I'm now having very good results running a Motobatt 11AH AGM battery with the Tympanium. I also installed a new alternator rotor, but I'm not sure the old one was bad - both of them supported their own weight hanging from a screwdriver.

I agree about the voltmeter, good idea.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782337 08/23/19 3:07 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
reverb Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
I checked the old battery and this one, with a voltmeter.
All ok, but as mentioned, these batteries have an indicator light on top (Green, Yellow and Red) that shows the charge.
I did 1300 km the other day and the old battery was charged; first hours I rode by night with low beam and heated gloves; did not like it, so I unplugged the gloves.
In a big city we were in a traffic jam for about 1 hour and the other guy battery (Yamaha 1100 with Yuasa) died; the old one mine do not but about 1100 km the light was in Red so I decided to buy a new one.

Do not know, but 2.2 A seems not so much for a RM24...the rotor is a new Lucas; Podtronics regulator and surefire ignition.

Or your are mentioning other way to check with a voltmeter?

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782339 08/23/19 3:18 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,646
Likes: 31
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,646
Likes: 31
I meant fit a voltmeter to the bike, like you would an ammeter, so you can see the system voltage as you are riding, checking the volts after a ride only tells you about the battery at that point.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782340 08/23/19 3:26 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 6
I did in my A65 BSA and liked it very much.
Voltmeter showed level of charging and with my 1 phase alternator it wasn't much mostly like 12.5V with ma lights on, 13.5V with lights off at 4000 rpm. Not possible to ride with lights on in town, with many traffic lights and heavy traffic.
My AGM battery lasted 3 seasons, but I only charged it once during winter.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782358 08/23/19 6:23 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
I have the same charging and ignition setup as you, if the battery is dead it’ll normally start after a couple of kicks. The RM24 will give a very high output of charge from a couple of thousand rpms. It might be worth having a look at your loom, your grounds and any connections.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782361 08/23/19 6:53 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 13
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 13
A volt meter is much more useful than an ammeter. As stated earlier under or over voltage will kill a battery.
I fitted a LiFePo battery to my Aprilia, half the size of the lead acid it replaced, higher cranking amps and virtually zero self discharge. When it arrived by post I thought the box was empty, it weighs half of fukc all


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782367 08/23/19 7:48 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 18
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 18
It's worth fitting a LED alternator/battery charge light to the headlight shell in place of one of the other warning lights. The light is green if the battery voltage is between 12.6 and 15.4v, red if less than 12.6v and various other colours depending on the state of the battery & charge.

I have this device fitted to my A65 and Norton Commando, its easy to fit and well worthwhile to get an idea of the charge status. This Link for an example.

If your battery is draining there are a couple of fixes you might consider:-
- change the regulator/rectifier, for a modern type
- consider fitting LED headlight bulbs, these are much lower wattage than original but can provide better illumination, see This Link

I don't think the battery is your problem but more likely the charging system isnt 100% which combined with the heated grips and headlight is slowly draining the system.

Last edited by gunner; 08/23/19 7:54 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: battery and kilometers
gunner #782371 08/23/19 8:26 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Originally Posted by gunner


If your battery is draining there are a couple of fixes you might consider:-
- change the regulator/rectifier, for a modern type
- consider fitting LED headlight bulbs, these are much lower wattage than original but can provide better illumination, see This Link

I don't think the battery is your problem but more likely the charging system isnt 100% which combined with the heated grips and headlight is slowly draining the system.



The poster mentions he has an RM24, this is a 3 phase high output alternator, about the maximum charging capacity you can get for our Brit iron.

He is also using a Podtronics Reg Rec which is one of the best units on the market.

It’s possible that there is an issue with the stator and output voltage can be checked prior to regulation, but I’d be surprised if this is a problem.

The RM24 can support 100w of lighting plus ignition at tick over, it’s quite a powerful charging system! I’ve used heatedgrips on a lower output charging system and find it doesn’t give any grief.

A good idea would be to check the resistance through the loom.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: battery and kilometers
Allan G #782376 08/23/19 9:26 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,446
Likes: 11
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,446
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
The poster mentions he has an RM24, this is a 3 phase high output alternator, about the maximum charging capacity you can get for our Brit iron.


It's a '79 T140E which would normally have had the low(er) output version RM24 47252 stator (still only needing a single Zener originally, and 9AH battery).


Originally Posted by reverb
I bought a gel battery a bit more than a year ago


You mentioned in a previous thread that you bought a new gel battery in February this year and that you had problems with it then, so is this a different 'gel battery'?

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/764413/battery-drain






Last edited by L.A.B.; 08/23/19 10:49 pm.
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782388 08/23/19 11:12 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
reverb Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
...hi L.A.B.; seems that you have more memory than me or that the accident let me forget things; I did not remember the other battery so even worst if that this gel battery only lasted few months. May be I need to buy a new stator...I will open the primary to see if something is loose.

Heated gloves (Gerbings; they do not fabricate more) not grips.

Charging system could be however I did those 1300 km with those traffic jams et all so possibly still manage to charge something...

Did not know about an original Lucas high output RM24; I only know about the "newer" 280W ones.
I assume that go on the 80s models? Is it possible to fit a battery with more Amps? The ones that I have been saying are bigger in size for the space in the bike.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782429 08/24/19 6:47 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Gloves or grips are irrelevant they will work in a similar fashion.

I think you mean 180w RM24? This is what I have on mine, bought it from LP WILLIAMS some 12/13 years ago and been happy with it.


LAP, good call. I didn’t realise there was 2 versions of the RM24 facepalm

47244 being the other.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782436 08/24/19 8:14 am
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,446
Likes: 11
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,446
Likes: 11
Originally Posted by "reverb"
Heated gloves (Gerbings; they do not fabricate more) not grips.


Gerbing produces a range of heated items, not just gloves.
https://gerbing.co.uk/


Originally Posted by "reverb"
Is it possible to fit a battery with more Amps?


Given enough time and effort (and money) then it should be possible to modify the existing battery carrier, make a new one, or fit the later carrier as the electric start models had a larger (14AH) battery but that also required the seat pan to be recessed to allow sufficient space for the taller battery.

https://boaspares.com/products/triumph-seat-t140-electric-start-with-battery-recess

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782438 08/24/19 10:22 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 13
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,604
Likes: 13
Fitting a bigger battery is not going to cure the problem, just delay the point where the battery becomes too flat.
You need to ensure the charging system is working, start the bike and whilst idling turn the lights on full beam. Does the headlight get brighter if you rev the motor?
Put a volt meter across the battery terminals, if fully charged it should be around 13.5 volts, start the engine and rev to about 2500RPM, the voltage should rise to around 14.2 - 14.4 volts More than this will cook your battery less than this your battery will not charge.
Repeat the test with lights on and your heated gloves on, you should still see 14.2 - 14.4 volts
Does your battery go flat when the bike is not in use?


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782457 08/24/19 3:46 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
reverb Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
Hi Allan; yes, 180W. The normal provides 100W? I had low beam but the tail light was 21W (bad connection so the stop light working) plus EI and gloves that I do not know the Wattage and may be the stator is charging not a full; hence the low battery.

Hi L.A.B,
Seems the original Gerbings from USA was sold some years ago. The model that I have is not fabricated more. Good to hear that in UK is possible to find stuff; because I need couple of accessories.

Just see; I would continue with this seat pan; due to the color, stance, etc.
I will fit an Smartfire Pazon that seems a bit different than the surefire so I would check the space there.

Hi Andy; I did that test but not with the gloves and was ok; I will do it with the gloves. I always have the battery fully charged; so I think the test would do it right; possibly the problem is with all these "ON" for more than an hour or so.

Thanks

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782464 08/24/19 5:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 28
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 28
2.2 amps x 12 volts = 26.4 watts.
i have a 3 phase high output alternator , Boyer ignition, 60/55 watt main lamp , and a voltage LED indicator, if the revs go below around 2,500 on dip beam the light starts to show low charge, on main beam it needs 3,000 rpm, . if i were to add another load of 26 Watts like your gloves I expect I would need to keep the revs over 3.5 K to keep the account balanced.
You are asking too much of your system to run the gloves and lights. One or the other , not both might be OK.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782496 08/25/19 3:43 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
reverb Offline OP
Britbike forum member
OP Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,008
Likes: 3
...hi Gavin, could be but as mentioned, the gloves were used at around 4200RPMs and seeing that the low beam was poor I decided to unplug at around 180 km; but my RM24 is the normal output; however, after many kilometers the battery did not went fully charged so I decided to buy (at about 1100km) a new one to make it home without that possible problem.
Is very cold here due to the wind and humidity; even more at 4:00AM; the hour I was riding that day.
Do not get it your 180W stator that cannot hold that consume.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782502 08/25/19 4:21 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,621
Likes: 40
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,621
Likes: 40
.
Install a voltmeter.
Without live circuit voltage reading
As loads and rpms change ... the problem and/or solutions ... are just a guess .
.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782513 08/25/19 6:46 am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 1
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 1
still happy with a lead acid 9 amp with all the old stuff like Zener, points and all. Only problem I have ever had was coming home on a 2 hour ride late in November with an electric vest when the battery was pretty much done and having to unhook the vest so I could have lights at the stop lights. Bought a battery the next day. So I just keep using the original system without complaint. Maybe one day I'll graduate to all the new updates but so far so good on the old stuff.

Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782515 08/25/19 7:21 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 817
Likes: 14
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 817
Likes: 14
If you cannot find a good reason for your battery going flat, fit an led headlamp bulb.
The new ones are very good and use less than half the power.

I still think there is something wrong with the wiring on your bike though, that alternator should
cope with the load you have with no problems. When you work out power consumption on
these set ups, the system voltage is actually 14.2-14.5 not 12v. That is the voltage that the regulator
will control at and at which the system should operate. Make sure the 3 leads coming from the stator
are well connected to the regulator, solder if you wish. Then make sure the output wires from the
regulator connect directly to the battery, using reasonably heavy cable. This will ensure the battery
is charged at the optimum. Avoid lots of connectors in those lines.
What happens after that is just the discharge side, at least then you will know the battery is being
charged as well as is possible.
Just my 2c, but so many of these problems are due to poor connections and wiring on the charging side.

Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782525 08/25/19 11:57 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 28
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,255
Likes: 28
Ignition load Boyer micro digital , say 3 amps at 14 volts is 42 Watts ( pulled this figure from thin air , according to Boyer the micro power uses half the micro digital which I have, at 1.5 amps)
Tail lamp , 6 W Book figure
main beam 60 W My lamps ( not stock ) + 2.2 Watts for main beam indicator
Dip 50 W My lamps
Instruments, 2 x 2.2 = 4.4 W book figures
Steady state on dip, total load 102.4 Watts, on main 109.6 W

adding gloves at 2.2A x 14 volt = 30.8 W brings this to 140W

if the alternator rotor has poor magnetism these figures will be unattainable.

If the max output of 180 W is well up the rev range ( I dont know where it peaks) then at low revs even a decent system is going to struggle, be about break even at cruising speeds/ revs 3- 4 K. If I cruise at 4,000 rpms, everything is fine, around town idling and puttering about 2,500 rpms this system is in debt without gloves. I have a 6 year old lead acid battery, 13,000 mile, still going strong ( this is taken off the bike in Winter and stored indoors).
Dirty connections from alternator to regulator will certainly not help.
I use heated gear on my more modern bike, I dont think my Beesa would cope with lights and additional heating load. maybe with an LED headlamp as Nick suggests , I am using a Wipac quad optic, its an excellent light , I am not changing that anytime soon. Its cold in Scotland Ive tried heated grips and heated waistcoats , if using heated gear I think you get more for your Watts with a heated waistcoat, keeping the core warm is much more important than the extremities. Silk inner gloves and or additional outer muffs are better for keeping hands warm .

Last edited by gavin eisler; 08/25/19 12:18 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: battery and kilometers
reverb #782558 08/25/19 4:52 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,853
Likes: 26
3 phase should reach max charging capacity at around 2400 rpm. The single phase is more linear throughout the Rev range.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Jon W. Whitley 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Gold Membership | Premium Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4