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Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808484 05/10/20 5:39 pm
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Thanks guys! I've ordered one of Jon's spring pullers and will do it again when that arrives.

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Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808755 05/13/20 2:28 am
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So with the inlet rockers in place, it was time to put the head back on:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Nice new copper gasket with a little copaslip added:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and on she went:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I put the exhaust rockers on:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and in went the pushrods:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Rotating the engine shows all rockers and valves moving as they should. I set the gaps very approximately, as I hate the square-sectioned adjusters and will replace them with an Allen key version.

Last edited by Psychopasta; 05/13/20 2:29 am.
Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808756 05/13/20 2:39 am
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I then did a trial fit of the new exhaust, which is the 'Siamese' 2into1 type

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Am I right that there are no exhaust gaskets, and the pipe just pushes straight into the port? That was the arrangement it had originally. I was able to get the RHS pipe sitting nicely

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

but the LHS isn't playing ball:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I hate getting mediaeval on things, so I'd be grateful for any tips and tricks in exhaust fitment you might know.

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808761 05/13/20 3:26 am
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Try lubricating both pipes with copper anti seize at the head and at the collector, try loosening everything off, removing any mounts so it’s just head pipes and collector, no brackets or muffler, and putting the left side in first since it’s the problem, and if all else fails, use your Bultaco timing tool—a dead blow rubber or plastic hammer— But Over duct tape, gently, to persuade it a little. Just a little — because the problem may be the bend of the pipes. Hope not!

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808762 05/13/20 3:27 am
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I never knew I had a Bultaco timing tool but I just checked and there it is! Thanks!

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808777 05/13/20 7:31 am
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As someone mentioned earlier, your getting through this very quickly.

Firstly you need to take the head back off, 1) to anneal the head gasket, that thing will never seal unless you heat it to cherry red all the way round, you can then quench it to help remove the carbon deposit.

2) more importantly.... that’s this turd at the top of the cylinder?
[Linked Image]
It looks like something is breaking away, this needs investigating and sorting because if it gets worse you won’t have a Nice cylinder for very long.

The next one is the Siamese pipe, there aren’t any decent ones on the market unless you stumble across an original one, I have an original and I made a copy from that. However that’s not possible for a lot of people, the main problem with them is this:

[Linked Image]

The right hand down pipe hasn’t been cleared properly before the mating pipe has been brazed on. What happened with mine was the gas couldn’t escape properly and it buggered the left hand cylinder. The picture was taken after I had started dremelling all the excess metal away so it was worse than that, by the time I had finished there was no lip, but gas flow on these pipes is still poor compared to an original pipe.

Don’t know if you know or not but you’ll also need some 5/16 rod (or 8mm) to make a tie rod that fits through the tubes at the headers. The problem with the left hand pipe and why it won’t go in properly is because there is too much curve on that left hand pipe. There isn’t enough straight section. Seal it in with RTV sealing and tap it in as far as it will go then put the tie rod in.... you’ve also forgot to put an exhaust clamp on where the two pipes meet.

Last edited by Allan G; 05/13/20 7:39 am.

Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

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Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808792 05/13/20 10:13 am
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What Allan said.You Must anneal the head gasket.Yes ,even if it is new, copper age hardens, there is no saying how long the HG has been sitting on a shelf.
Plus coppaslip is not jointing compound Coppercoat is, after annealing the head gasket, fit O rings in the oil drain holes, size not too critical, this helps prevent leaks, so long as they crush a little.
Shine a torch down the pushrod tunnel and make extra sure the pushrods are fully located on the cam followers its easy to get them half cocked, this does not go well, the telltale is excess tappet adjuster thread showing , like the TS inlet valve in your pic.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
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Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808797 05/13/20 12:41 pm
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Also, double check the exhaust rocker washer (top left in this pic). That side of the rocker should be rocker -> spring washer -> small washer (the washer only fits over the small part of the shaft)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

If it's cocked, that would explain why the nut isn't pulling the shaft as much as it should (in this pic)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808823 05/13/20 7:03 pm
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Wow, lots of thoughts there guys, thanks!

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808824 05/13/20 7:10 pm
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Hey Gavin, I'm not disputing your advice to anneal the copper gasket, but can you explain why it's necessary? I would have thought the heat of the engine would do that, and that the gasket would mold itself the the two faces once the engine is under load...hence one of the reasons to retorque the head after initial use.

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808834 05/13/20 8:08 pm
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just a thought.

when i anneal a new gasket to dead soft, it will bend with little force while i handle it. like lead sheet.

when i take one off a motorcycle that has been running a while, the gasket will be stiff and sometimes cracked.

it would appear that the heat from the motor isn't enough to anneal the metal.


I would rather be ashes than dust
Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808837 05/13/20 9:14 pm
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If you aneal the gasket you are softening the copper so that it will crush and seal. If done properly you can fit the gasket with no sealent and not have to re-torque. If the gasket isn’t softened there is a high chance that it won’t seal.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808843 05/13/20 9:27 pm
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Righto, thanks!

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808847 05/13/20 9:56 pm
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The engine does not make enough heat to anneal the gasket, if it did you would be in real bother . What Kevin says above , just said another way. Even so , You must still retorque after a couple of heat cycles . Also a good idea to go round the cylinder base flange at the same time, but lets not get ahaead of ourselves. Whats on the cylinder bores? if its more grease get rid of it. Motor oil only.and very lightly applied.

As a general point, its very rare to take a new motor part and just bolt it on without it needing some fettling in some way or at the very least close inspection..
New rings may ( usually) need to be filed to get the right gap.
Too tight a ring gap will lead to seizure.
Very often machined parts need deburred, particularly clutch bits. Non deburred bits will jam/ act badly or eat away at other parts.
Pistons for over 9:1 CR should have the sharp edges relieved on the valve cut outs to prevent hot spots/ pinking.
Valve guides need honing to final size, valve seats must be recut if new guides are installed. etc etc.

Solid copper head gaskets need to be annealed, they can be reused over and over, provided they are still intact. but they must be annealed every time they are fitted. It only takes a cuppla minutes.

Copper anneals around 400 C / 700 F, the motor head runs around 230 C ( mine does at least , Ive measured it)


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808855 05/13/20 11:15 pm
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Thanks Gavin. Round 2 coming soon...

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #808867 05/14/20 1:59 am
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copper is sold in various grades of hardness .

Dead soft copper sheet is harder to work with than copper with at least a partial temper .
the copper does not Harden on the Shelf ... it hardens by being worked .
It's likely that any volume manufacturer of gaskets is using a somewhat harder
copper.... to made shop handling and manufacturing easier .

then , No matter what softness of copper is used
the stamping process will work harden all the manufactured edges .

Unless the gasket is sold as dead soft ,
what you buy new ... is copper of unknown hardness

so its up to the installer to bring the copper to dead soft by annealing .
the gasket will work harden is use ... but can be re softened again and again through annealing to cherry red .
copper has its own rules .
It's necessary that the whole gasket reaches cherry red to softer
... but it does not have to be the whole gasket at the same time .

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810275 05/25/20 8:05 pm
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So, after a week of Honeydew lists and garage tidying, I stripped the head back down to anneal the copper gasket and add the two missing O-rings (thanks Gavin) also to tidy up the grease at the edge of the cylinder (thanks Allan):

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Top tip: when choosing a container for the quenching water, choose one that doesn't leak. Anyway:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Annealed washer, O-rings and nicely cleaned up cylinder edges. Rebuilt head, and then I checked the exhaust rocker end washer. This is the exhaust cam and final washer in place:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and this shows how far the bolt protrudes (actually it looks like the image is cut off, but the bolt is just flush with the nut:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I replaced the tappet adjusters with nice new ones with slotted ends:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
and larger, hardened faces:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

and then reassembled the whole thing. Got teenage son to turn the engine over with a spanner on the rotor nut and checked out the movement of the top end:

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/k2jqaIOKA8M[/video]

and all seems good to me. The tappet clearances are not yet set properly, I'll do that once I have the ignition installed and I do the static timing

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810438 05/27/20 3:00 am
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So, got the exhaust on today. The two-into-one header is not well made as far as the left cylinder and the join between the two pipes is concerned. You can get any two, but not all three, connections made tightly:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I used tiedowns to pull the header into shape and into alignment with the mounting point on the frame:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Then on with a nice little angled piece:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

And then on went a Dime City Cycles muffler I had from a previous project years ago:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I quite like the looks of the final exhaust. I made up a hanger for the muffler using an M8 bolt and some nuts:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

for that 'fresh from the factory' look whistle. Alignment with the shocks looks OK at this point:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

But I'll know better when the swingarm is on and the wheel mounted. Worst-case I may need to increase the offset distance.

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810455 05/27/20 6:33 am
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Probably still a bit overzealous with putting things on the bike, you’ll be taking off some if not all the exhaust to make the swing arm, mudguard, front end etc fit easier (the exhausts are normally one of the last things people fit)

Apart from still not addressing the kickstart spring issue you might want to have a trial fit of the riders foot pegs. I’ve found that often the paint needs to be sanded back to allow the taper to fit securely.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810465 05/27/20 10:27 am
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The exhaust pipes need a tie bar where they leave the ports, guaranteed they will spit out without one. Nuthin fancy each header should be trapped between two nuts, a suitable lenth of 1/4 diameter SS rod threaded each end will do. If you can fit it and the nuts without removing the pipes give yourself a cigar.
For cleaning off the exhaust goo , use petrol/gasolene. That red hi temp stuff is overkill, ordinary bath type silicon can easily withstand exhaust port temperatures.
The kickstart spring will break if left over tensioned.
The matt unpollished cases will attract dirt.
Was upon a time there was a planning concept called Critical path Analysis.
Some jobs must be done before others.
Fitting oil lines and rear wheel /chain , testing tweaking gearchange, oiling up motor all come well before fannying around with exhaust pipes.


71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810498 05/27/20 5:02 pm
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Yep, this is a retirement project not a commercial one, so I fit things because I have them, not because they are on the critical path. I'm trying to source a tie rod and will have it before the engine fires up, I'm sure.

I just received the spring tool that Jon recommended for the kickstart spring so that is on today's list. Cases and rocker cover are going off for plating soon as the lockdown's being lifted enough to allow it. Work work.

Last edited by Psychopasta; 05/27/20 5:05 pm.
Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810519 05/27/20 6:47 pm
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Plating Aluminium is a very bad idea. Not only does it destroy the aluminium underneath the chrome also flakes off, I’ve known good chrome company’s who will refuse to do this. Have them polished instead.

The Tie rod size is M8 or 5/16” get some rod and thread the ends up. I fit 2 nuts on mine but you’ll also find that the tightening of the rod will help to pull the headers into place, a few heat cycles and re-tensioning will sort it.

Last edited by Allan G; 05/27/20 10:57 pm. Reason: Auto correct .... auto misspelled

Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810543 05/27/20 9:00 pm
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Thanks Allen!

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810632 05/28/20 2:46 pm
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In that photo of your newly annealed gasket, you can see the cylinder bore finish. Hard to tell for sure from the photo, but it doesn’t look like the bores were honed properly. Much better if there is a 45 degree cross hatch with the proper stone or stones if doing a plateau finish. Personally I think it’s good to ask the ring manufacturer what stones to use rather than just go based on an ancient shop manual. For example Deves recommends 220 with their cast iron rings.

Re: Barn Find Beeza
Psychopasta #810677 05/29/20 12:00 am
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What about oil filter, did you install anything?

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