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Help! Noob trying to rewire! #781498 08/15/19 1:55 am
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Danam Offline OP
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Hello, I'm new to BSA A50's. I recently got a 1970 A50 and the wiring was a complete mess. Not much on this bike is stock. The bike has a single coil for both plug leads (Dyna?) that has no + or - labels. It has a Podtrorics module to replace the zener diode & reg. It has a Boyer Electronic ignition. all of these modern components together don't compare at all to the stock wiring diagram in the shop manual. I set the iginition timing like it said, and it doesn't start. I'm sure I wired this up wrong. Attached is a drawing of the wiring right now. Can someone take a look and tell me what's wrong?
Thank you!
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fMmueOfPdPIuYVZ8k7SAKfRnn-9qj-Tx/view?usp=sharing[/img]

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Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781503 08/15/19 2:44 am
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First of all disconnect the battery, for safety's sake!

If you really wish to run a system as basic as this, it can be done...but really?

Next put a fuse (say 15A continuous in the +ve battery lead, near to the battery) which will then connect to all other +ve wires. For instance, the red from the Podtronics and the red from the coil (indicated as going to ground in your diagram) should both go there, as well as red wires for other systems on the bike.

The white wire from the Pod should go to batt -ve, as should the Boyer white (but by going through the ignition switch).

That should be enough to make the basic system work - but it is basic! Best of luck.

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781510 08/15/19 3:29 am
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Danam Offline OP
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Thanks for responding koan58. I know it's basic but I just want to get it running. I made a mistake on my drawing, the white wire on the Podtronics should say BLACK. my bad!
I have a 35a fuse off of the negative wire from the battery.

Here is the edited image:
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fMmueOfPdPIuYVZ8k7SAKfRnn-9qj-Tx/view?usp=sharing[/img]

Last edited by Danam; 08/15/19 4:07 am.
Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: koan58] #781512 08/15/19 4:16 am
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Basically you show
The regulator wired backwards . To the battery .
( but if you just switched the battery , your connection wouldn't shut the bike off with the key ... so this needs to be addressed too l

For standard positive ground :

1. Red from pod ..Goes to positive battery terminal... ( pos terminal also needs a good ground to frame )
2. Black from pod ... goes to negative battery terminal... through a 15 amp fuse .
3.The key switch wire connects to the black fused wire ... after the fuse ... not on the battery side .
4. The white wire from the Boyer goes to the key switch ... it is receiving fuse protected negative battery polarity
5. Red and back from boyrr box can go to either connection of a dual output coil ... and the red wire loops back to the battery plus andor good ground .

6. Check for decent battery voltage and
Vroom vroom

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781535 08/15/19 2:40 pm
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Danam Offline OP
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I see, I’m almost there. Is it correct to assume the black wire from the podtronics module to the negative battery is sending current, charging the battery?

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781624 08/16/19 5:04 am
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Originally Posted by Danam
I see, I’m almost there. Is it correct to assume the black wire from the podtronics module to the negative battery is sending current, charging the battery?


Yes ... if the rectified voltage ( from the Pod ) is greater than the battery voltage .( the battery is driven into charge state and receives current )

No ... if the battery voltage is greater than the circuit voltage .( the battery is draining through this same wire and is supplying current )

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781625 08/16/19 5:13 am
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Originally Posted by Danam
I see, I’m almost there. Is it correct to assume the black wire from the podtronics module to the negative battery is sending current, charging the battery?

Yes, but the black from the Pod should be connected directly to the battery, not through the ignition switch.
A US spec 35A fuse is too large. Your main fuse should be 15, maybe 20 amps.


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Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: DavidP] #781631 08/16/19 7:49 am
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Originally Posted by DavidP
Originally Posted by Danam
I see, I’m almost there. Is it correct to assume the black wire from the podtronics module to the negative battery is sending current, charging the battery?

Yes, but the black from the Pod should be connected directly to the battery, not through the ignition switch.
A US spec 35A fuse is too large. Your main fuse should be 15, maybe 20 amps.


The black (negitive) wire from battery to ignition switch is fused .
If the black pod wire is connected right after this fuse ... it too is fuse protected by that one fuse ..
If the black pod wire connects ... directly to the battery ... it needs its own fuse ..

One fuse or two ,
Which is simpler to wire and maintain ... is up to the individual.

Last edited by quinten; 08/16/19 8:03 am.
Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781633 08/16/19 10:23 am
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As there are 2 power sources there should be a minimum of 2 fuses


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Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781785 08/17/19 9:51 pm
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Okay, I wired it up like you said and I’m seeing a spark in the plugs, sometimes when I turn the key on, it sparks too, not sure what that means. Anyways, she will not start. Not even a backfire. It is getting fuel to the twin mono bloc carbs when I tickle them. I’m guessing the ignition timing is off, I need some advice with that. blush.
The manual said to use the special tool to find advance tdc by inserting it into the little hole, I'm using this tool, it should find the slot in the crank, but mine (1970) has no hole in the crank or slot of any kind. I looked very carefully as I rotated the motor over and over. I’ve seen this problem mentioned before on the forum. So I’m trying to find tdc the old way. I’m slowly rotating the motor until pistons reach the top, valves closed. I look at the rotor and I see one mark, the side cover has two holes for pointers (not sure what happened to them) what hole should I be lining the rotor up with? And is that TDC ?

Here's what I see:
[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4rEJnCewvHDbnZHYUZWNkVGUEo1TjdZUTBPSTdBVktTbTE0/view?usp=sharing[/img]

Last edited by Danam; 08/17/19 9:59 pm.
Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781789 08/17/19 10:19 pm
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Spark at plugs when key on is not unusual with EI systems.

Piston at top with both valves closed should be TDC on one side or the other. We usually use the timing chest side. A hang over from the days of points. Your EI should spark both at the same time so it probably won't matter.

Stick your thumb over the plug hole and feel it compress though.


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'70 Triumph Trophy 500. Bottom end rumble awaiting diagnosis
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Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781790 08/17/19 10:28 pm
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Danam Offline OP
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yes but if you look at the photo I posted, which hole is the mark on the stator supposed to line up with?

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781797 08/17/19 11:33 pm
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I don’t know. I don’t own an A50. Perhaps one hole is at idle and one is at full advance.

Have you set the Boyer plate in the correct static timed position though? That’s the whole point of finding tdc.


'51 C11 in a '54 C10L frame..."The Bantam Eater"
'70 Triumph Trophy 500. Bottom end rumble awaiting diagnosis
'72 Triumph Tiger 650. Boyer wired back in, proper coils replaced, working on single point ground..
Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781801 08/18/19 12:35 am
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Just took a quick look in the '69 & '70 workshop manual and it shows the pointer for both A50 and A65 in the hole to the right of your timing mark in the photo, the one on the larger boss.

Last edited by Will S.; 08/18/19 12:39 am.

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Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781804 08/18/19 12:48 am
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I think the front hole (left) was used in the earlier motors, representing 37 degrees btdc, with the rear hole (right) is 35 degrees. In either case, it should start as long as you're "close enough" as it's timing at full advance. When starting, timing will be closer to 0 or 2 degrees, depending on which hole you used.

Fire the Boyer, be sure you're seeing the rotor magnet through the timing plate hole designated "anticlockwise". This should be marked on the plate itself.

With EI, it won't matter whether you're on compression on either cylinder as they both fire together.

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781805 08/18/19 1:00 am
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1.if the coil kicks some sparks with the el boxes initial inrush of current. .. it means its working .
(At least at the voltage connection level ) ... doesn't confirm timing.

2 .. ive heard of other 1970 engines with no flywheel notch .
On the fly changes were afoot in 1970 ... but as always , orders had to be filled and shipped ... or something like that .

you can do an initial rough timing with the ... down hole method...
A dowel is stuck down the sparkplug hole at tdc ... a length is added to mark Full-BTDC and used
Whlie rotating backwards
To set Full-Advance Static-timing ...
This sounds primitive , but its not ... if done when two hands and two good eyes .
its the method thousands of backyard mechanics used ...
Before there were timing lights to borrow from their neighbor .
The down hole length is buried in the spec sheets ... for an a65 , with same crank and stoke , ... I think it's .310"
( assuming the a50 is an under bored a65 )

3. The timing pin goes missing from the timing hole
Because it often interferes with the rotor .
The hole closer to 6 o clock
Isnt TDC ... its 34° ... the other hole is for et ignition.

4. If the 34° rotor mark agrees with the down hole measure.... this is as good as it gets without better tools .
Once this baseline is established ,
Move the Boyer stator plate (on the other timing side ) ... so the white dot on one of the rotor magnets ... is centered in the correct Boyer hole ... per bsa rotation.
If there is not enough. Adjustment in the stator plate slot ... the little magnetic rotor has to be " knocked-off " its taper and rotated for better alignment .

I'll dig dig through my literature... to confirm the .... 0.310" number
.


Last edited by quinten; 08/18/19 1:03 am.
Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781807 08/18/19 1:12 am
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8mm btdc is close enough for jazz/get you going.
Then strobe it.

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781830 08/18/19 8:22 am
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Drop the sump cover off and rotate the crank slowly (put the bike in forth and turn the back wheel) I’m betting the flywheel has been fitted backwards and so not visible through the static timing slot.

Timing on the Boyer is the hole left of the poles. (Just adding to what Marc B said)

Also check the magnets on the Boyer rotor. I had one with a bad magnet, weirdly it will spark when cranked over with the plugs out but wouldn’t with the plugs fitted. They always spark when power is applied to the box, or if the wires to the points are rubbed together(disconnected from the points plate)


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Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781872 08/18/19 5:37 pm
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Allen Gill & Marc b, you are saying I should be looking through the “anti clockwise “ hole of the unit? Doesn’t the A50 cam turn in the clockwise direction?

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781881 08/18/19 7:20 pm
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And Danam: Don't be confused with all that regulator/rectifier business right now, you don't need it yet. A wire to the coil from battery is all you're gonna need to start her. Get those other wires out of your head except ignition.

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781882 08/18/19 7:20 pm
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I think you're right in that the cam spins clockwise with the crank.
However the points or EI are on the idler pinion, which rotates anticlockwise.

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781891 08/18/19 9:05 pm
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Oh wow, you’re right! That’s probably the whole reason it’s not starting! It backfired so hard it sheared the kickstarter lever pin. Has soon as I get a new one, I’ll let you know if it starts

Re: Help! Noob trying to rewire! [Re: Danam] #781910 08/18/19 11:36 pm
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I used a bolt for a temp kick start pin, I used the anticlockwise window on the unit and vrooom!! It starts! Thanks for everyone’s help here. It’s invaluable! Now to sort out the charging system and carbs and finally take it for a ride!


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