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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #780651 08/05/19 11:16 pm
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got a call from the ARP guy.

-- based on the weight of the rod (485), piston (237), and pin (60), he said that the bolts should have been within design specs at 8500 rpm.

-- one bolt looked like it had unscrewed two or three threads.

-- th ebolts appeared to be genuine ARP

-- rod looks strong enough, "doesn't look too skimpy," cap looked good too, with strengthening ribs. joining surface at the cap'rod looks okay, not too weak.

-- 99 percent sure that the bolt backed out. when that happens, like keith said, the other bolt takes all the force and breaks.

he's sending me some extra bolts to mess around with, comparing stretch to torque values. i'm frankly less interested in the science than in the solution, so if replacing bolts every teardown will avoid problems, i'll do that rather than chase down the engineering answer.

as to why the bolt backed out, he didn't have a solution. obviously it wouldn't have done so under correct tension, so either the bolt was overtorqued, or undertorqued, or stretched. i didn't measure them before, so i can't rule out stretch. hard to imagine messing up the torquing, though, as i had the crank in a vise and there's only four bolts.

so i strongly suspect stretching, even though the bolts are good to 8500.


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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #780837 08/07/19 6:06 pm
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crank checked out at 0.020. in the ammonia oven as we speak. only waiting on pistons.

today i finished grinding the new cases for the 21-tooth sprocket:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

also drilled and tapped for the front breather. who in the world needs a 37/64th drill bit except for this silliness? waiting on pistons now. i have everything else.

if i blow the crank up again, i think i've run out of re-grinds.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #780863 08/07/19 11:36 pm
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the current state of the universe:

- the cylinder head is okay and waiting for major assembly. great good fortune in it not even having a bent valve.

- the crank is at the chemists for nitriding. 0.020 was okay, and it will be in the mail saturday or monday.

- the pistons are still in la la land.

- the new jugs for the new cases fit together with the re-ground tappets at 0.011+ clearance between the tappet guide block ears and the cam lobe, on all lobes. excellent. without a base gasket and without the 0.020-.0.030 shims under the tappet guide blocks, even. this lessens the complexity, and is probably due to these particular tappets now having been ground twice. i'll remember that.

- new cams turn freely with the reground tappets. 21-tooth sprocket slips in on the main shaft. new mains and transferred gearbox bearings turn freely without issues.

the new cases for the motor appear to be okay. no issues that i can't address.

as soon as i have pistons, i'll open up the pockets for the valves (1.50 and 1.660) and clay them for clearance. i have what i need now for the tappets, so if the pistons can't live with the cam timing, i'll slip in a base gasket and see where we are. then polish the crowns and put the sucker together.

tick. tock. tick. tock.




every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781215 08/11/19 10:07 pm
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Hopefully the 020 grind won't weaken the crank next time you take it to the limit.

Will you lube the conrod bolts. Did you lube last time?

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781227 08/12/19 12:11 am
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"also drilled and tapped for the front breather. who in the world needs a 37/64th drill bit except for this silliness? ."


14.5mm is close enough for jazz eh?

Always used a drop of 242 on my corrillo's i never trusted that yankee lube stuff.

Last edited by NickL; 08/12/19 12:12 am.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: henryanthony] #781267 08/12/19 10:54 am
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Originally Posted by henryanthony
Hopefully the 020 grind won't weaken the crank next time you take it to the limit.

Will you lube the conrod bolts. Did you lube last time?


yes. i use the ARP-supplied lube on tbe bolts tbreads and under the bolt head, as tbey specify.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: NickL] #781268 08/12/19 11:01 am
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Originally Posted by NickL
"also drilled and tapped for the front breather. who in the world needs a 37/64th drill bit except for this silliness? ."


14.5mm is close enough for jazz eh?

Always used a drop of 242 on my corrillo's i never trusted that yankee lube stuff.



lol

if i'd had a 14.5 tap i would have used it. this american system of 16ths, 32nds, and 64ths should be tossed once and for all.

hated decimal british money, though, when tbey went from d to new pence. i had no difficulty with shillings.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781276 08/12/19 12:48 pm
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How the crankshaft is finished, especialy the journal fillet is more important that .020" of metal..


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #781281 08/12/19 3:27 pm
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well, the guy that made it is the guy working on it now. should have been back in his hands today.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781339 08/13/19 3:39 am
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i have decided to go insane. i'm off for two days, and have no pistons and no crankshaft. i have 14 days to modify, assemble, start, and break-in the motor before i leave on the 27th, and i have two weekends to do it.

ed says the pistons should have been in the mail from JE today.

greg says the crank should have come out of the ammonia saturday.

chassis is fine, the rear disc brake drags, but i think it's because the front master cylinder is vertical and has valve issues. i'll experiment with bar angle tomorrow, and if that doesn't work, just pry out the brake pads and don't use the brakes. tomorrow i'll do everything left to do with the crankcases, which is nothing.

and i've become intensely curious about tony's 1997 buell cyclone. which i was going to assign as a back-up machine but now want to run for its own sake. it will do the ton two-up in a heartbeat, but i want to know how fast it will go farther out. the front pulley on it was a 26, and i've changed it to a 30, which is like 15 percent steeper--maybe too steep. it's a great ratio if it will pull it, but if it won't there's a 28 coming from eBay. between a 26, 28, and 30 i should be able to do something useful. i've got new pirelli tires, W-rated. the battery already has a metal hold-down, the plastic chain guard comes right off, and nothing else is against the rules.

M/PG 1350/4 is 133 and 135, no faster than my bonneville.

tomorrow if i can i'll drill out the axle fasteners for safety wire, and see about installing a dead-man lanyard. nothing else to do on that bike. won't touch the timing, but i've still got to open the carb and see what tony put in there for jets, so i can get some others.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781362 08/13/19 11:24 am
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That was strong running Buell when I got it with the White Bros muffler and stock carb...They are rated at 83 crank HP....About 72-73 at the rear wheel...The addition of the 42mm flat slideHSR Mikuni and the Whilte Bros muffler should be 77 RWHP...The engine bounces off the RPM limiter at 6700 rpm...You can buy the HD "race" ignition box that changes the advance curve and raises the limiter to around 7000 I believe...I think the main jet is a 165..Use race gas or at least 93 pump gas for the track, 91 is fine for the street.....If you remove the muffler ,well, maybe a bigger jet..Check the tire dates and the steering damper rules..The best info on those bikes is here..
Buell info

You know, the Evo Sportster 1200 engines are LSR reliable at 120 plus rear wheel HP on gasoline...Hammer Perfomance is a great site to check out..No more expensive than building a vintage Triumph..People make jokes about Harleys but when properly modified they are no laughing matter with some naked frame Sportsters crowding 200 MPH on gas at Bonneville.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781388 08/13/19 4:25 pm
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harleys are cool machines. i love the motor, it's just i've never had an interest in the harley culture, which these days is mostly cruisers. most people i know buy the harleys for the culture, not the machine. they're an odd group, riding around in platoons with regimented behaviors and procedures.

your front pulley was a 26-tooth. it wasn't clear how big i could go with the stock belt, so i bought a 30 to see, and it fits fine. but the 30 raises the ratio some 15 percent, and i don't know if there's enough torque up there to pull it. the motor now lugs at 40 mph or so in top gear. perfect. i also bought a 28, so we'll see what works best. i'll pull the float bowl today and order some jets from biche cycle, just to have them.

pulling the gearbox sprockets on this thing is easy. changing the ignition timing is not.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781402 08/13/19 6:37 pm
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Why do you want to mess with the timing?


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781416 08/13/19 10:46 pm
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i'm not planning to. drilling out rivets to get to the stator cover and having to re-rivet to keep out water? no.

but timing for a street-oriented motor may not be optimum for top end. the only way to find out is to test. i may mess with it, but only after i can't get anything with gearing, jets, and muffler, and if i'm really close to a record, which i don't anticipate. but you never know.

M/PG-1350/4 is only 133.885/135.668.

and M/PF-1350/4 is a measley 103.271/122.563. i can run in fuel just by changing the numbers.

it isn't hard to change, just take off the covers until you get to the stator slots, then look through a little hole at the crank with a timing light.



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781445 08/14/19 10:42 am
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The M2 model you have with the stock 28 tooth sprocket had a top speed of 126-130 mph in magazine tests of the era, said to be rpm limited...1/4 mile was in 11.9-12.2 range, weight with fuel about 450 pounds...It has a stock Sportster engine with a better intake and exhaust and a bit more compression..You should be able to adjust down the rear shock to lower the bike an inch or so..Watch the tension on the rear belt it must have slack through the entire suspension travel


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #781467 08/14/19 7:46 pm
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even with the 30 i can make the belt sloppy loose and still have three threads on the ends of the adjuster bolts. the manual only asks for an inch of slop with a hard10-pound pull on the middle of the belt. i didn't think there was going to be enough adjustment, but there is.

if that thing could do 126 with a 28, then the math says that at the same rpm it should be able to do 135 with a 30. if it could possibly pull 130, then the steeper ratio gives it a theoretical 139. obviously it may not pull that high, but you never know until you try. even M/PS-1350/4 buells with fairings are only 133 to 136. i don't know why nobody leans on them up in maine. there's two or three there every year, all running around 135.

just changed the tires on it to pirelli diablo rossi W-rated. hard to get the original sizes, i think i went down a centimeter on the rear. and went through half a dozen drill bits safety wiring all the bolts. nothing left but to bleed the front brake and install a deadman lanyard.

no stinking news on the crank or pistons. i called my captive machinist to give him a heads up and he said as soon as i get pistons and jugs to him he'll turn them right around.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781469 08/14/19 7:59 pm
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There was a lot of complaints on the Harlry recomended belt slack causing failures. Loose is beter becase of the swingarm arc. Plenty of info on Bad Weather Bikers


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781488 08/14/19 11:57 pm
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the manual says 7/8 to 1 inch. i think i've got at least two inches in there. i've been running it only tight enough to get rid of driveline snatch.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781492 08/15/19 12:31 am
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Originally Posted by kevin roberts
the manual says 7/8 to 1 inch. i think i've got at least two inches in there. i've been running it only tight enough to get rid of driveline snatch.

One inch is ok on a Sportster with 3 inches of rear wheel travel and a near horizontal swingarm..I had adjusted it to for enough slack to push down with light force on the top run aft of the trans pully so the belt hits the swing arm..It seems sloppy...Do check on Buell forums...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781605 08/16/19 12:24 am
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well, i spun it around until i found the tightest spot on th ebelt, then set the bottom run at about two and a half inches with the bike on the sidestand and me leaning on the seat. when i sit on it in neutral i can just force the top run down to touch the swingarm with two or three fingers. with me off the bike it's disturbingly loose.

drilled out all the bolts and nuts for safety wire, and just finished hooking an MPS deadman lanyard to the hot lead to the coil. so that machine is done, and there are some richer main jets coming from niche cycle.

and the crank guy called, and says i should get the crank tomorrow. he refused to charge me for regrinding-- all i'm paying for is the nitriding. so i asked him for a bunch of stickers. and the pistons went into the mail from ed valiket today.

so i don't know whether there's time for the 650, but the buell is ready to go, less taking the chainguard off.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781786 08/17/19 9:52 pm
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i cannot believe this comedy.

i have a crank. still in the box because the bearing shells are coming with the pistons.

today is saturday, and the pistons arrived. but the mail carrier is afraid of my wife's turkeys, so instead of leaving the box on the porch, he drove away with them and left me a note.

so now i have to wait until monday, and nobody will be in the house then either. if the turkeys still frighten him, he'll go away again.

perhaps i'll leave a not that says to please throw the box as far into the yard as he can without endangering himself.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781792 08/17/19 10:57 pm
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LOL


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #781812 08/18/19 1:39 am
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quinten Online Happy
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.

RFD[Linked Image from upload.wikimedia.org]
.
Did you forget to tip the mailman last Christmas ?
.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: quinten] #781875 08/18/19 6:27 pm
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im going to jam one of the turkeys nto a car and take it to the post office to introduce him.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #781894 08/18/19 9:18 pm
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Chickens are the ones you have watch out for. In my experience, they will sneak up from behind and try to peck you. Turkeys I have known do kind of sneak up from behind but just watch you calmly while not violating your personal space. Now, Canada geese will go straight after you with both barrels but they are wild so to be expected.

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