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Wenco Frame Triple Racer #776094 06/11/19 2:39 am
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DMadigan Offline OP
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Trying to get my Wenco frame triple together for the Cachuma rally. I decided to mount the fairing slightly farther forward for more clearance with the clip-ons. Changing the previous oil cooler to the stock cooler mounted horizontally the way the letterbox was originally done. This will need some ducting changes to bring the air up through the cooler into the headlamp box and out the internal side to the ports on the fairing sides.
Another use for the 3D printer is making brackets for test mounting the fairing. Much cheaper and faster to print off something and find it does not work for some reason than making metal parts.
[Linked Image]
The lower bracket rails should be dropped a little so there is more room for the cooler hoses to pass through.
The cooler has to be mounted to the bracket so the fairing can be removed and the cooler left in place.
This upper cowl has the headlight pocket made by Starbiker, the rest they copied off Bob Bailey's bike that he claimed at Ontario. Airtech has these molds now.
The headlight will be LED auxiliary lights remounted on a thinner heat sink.
Since lithium batteries have gotten cheaper I am mounting one in the tail cone and adding an E-starter. Kick starting was possible but having to fold the peg, unfold the kickstart lever then bring your knee up to your chest in full leathers to kick was not a quick getaway procedure.

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Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #776110 06/11/19 11:24 am
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At the latest "Old Bike Ride" in Colorado, there was a modern Triumph Thruxton with an earlier Triumph racing fairing. The brackets were a work of art made from 1/2" steel tubing which snaked its way down to the lower front down tubes. Additional special brackets were made to support the headlight. The owner told us of the many hours it took to fabricate them using the trial and error method. Your printer may be the answer to speed up the process.

Will the printer print smooth enough tubes to be used as velocity stacks? I can see starting with a stack of various sizes and shapes to try on a flow bench (of which I only have a crude homemade one), or actually on the dyno if the tubes would take the vibration of a big single.

Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: koncretekid] #776122 06/11/19 3:08 pm
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Originally Posted by koncretekid
Will the printer print smooth enough tubes to be used as velocity stacks? I can see starting with a stack of various sizes and shapes to try on a flow bench (of which I only have a crude homemade one), or actually on the dyno if the tubes would take the vibration of a big single.

Most printers, when the software settings are properly adjusted, can print quite smooth parts.

Also, if you use the correct media, it can make a permanent part, not just for testing!

Last edited by GrandPaul; 06/11/19 3:09 pm.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #776125 06/11/19 3:26 pm
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DMadigan Offline OP
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I already made a few velocity stacks shown here:
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/754221/1
Using the right material, intake runners have been made. Of course if you have the right printer and deep pockets, SpaceX has been printing titanium and inconel parts for their rocket engines.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780266 08/01/19 3:29 pm
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Finally finished the magnesium front fairing mount.
[Linked Image]
I was going to make a digital version of a Smiths tachometer for it but time is of the essence. This is a Chinese "universal" gauge - tachometer, speedometer, high beam, running lights, turn signals, neutral, fuel gauge, gear indicator, low battery and odometer.
I will not be using a few such as gear indicator. There are only five gears. I think that I can remember which gear I am in. Besides, not accelerating hard enough, shift down. Hitting red line, shift up. Pretty simple really.
I do not have running lights or fuel gauge. I probably will add turn signals as it is rather difficult to raise your arm vertical when leaned over in a tuck.
I will use the neutral light for the shift warning. It likely will not be bright enough though.
As you can guess, the instructions are written in Chinglish - [Fleet blue] : right signal Positive polar connection. That means light blue wire, right turn signal, positive connection.
They use green wire for negative power, a red wire direct to positive battery (to maintain miles?) and a black wire for switched positive power (labelled "positive electric door lock connection".
It appears most of the people putting up videos are completely guessing on how to make it work. The link to a youtube video is completely useless. The guy is totally clueless.
The connectors are fairly universal Japanese motorcycle items. The fuel gauge requires a variable resistor to battery minus between 3 and 85 ohms. Less than 3 ohms or more than 85 ohms makes the fuel gauge flash as if it is empty with the default setting of 3. I have not investigated the other modes since I am not using it.
The speedometer uses a hall effect pickup with settings of 1-12. They supply 3 magnets and suggest using 2. People in the videos are completely confused on setting the tyre circumference. It is the same as used on bicycles, mark the ground and tyre, roll until the mark is pointing at the ground again, measure the distance in millimeters and input that number.
They refer to engine RPM as "Tire rotating speed setting" although the previous instruction ends with "then enter into the cylinder number setting area" after saving the magnet setting.It does not mention how many settings there are for the number of cylinders but since the ignition gives one pulse per two revolutions a single cylinder setting should work. I will work it out with a pulse generator first.
The last setting is "the mileage cleared setting". It says "It could be cleared 200km once, 3 times in total. (Enter into this area again to clear more)". I will have to work this out with the pulse generator to see what that means.
The battery icon flashes below a set voltage. I did not measure it but probably around 12-12.5 volts.
The speed/mileage units can be changed between metric and foot-and-finger.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780342 08/02/19 7:03 am
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Just tried to read that after three ciders and a drop or two of shine, need to lay down now.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780404 08/03/19 3:26 am
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Here is the gauge lit up.
[Linked Image]
Grounding each of the gear wires lights up the number although you cannot ground two gear wires to confuse the display (3 & 1 does not display 8). You can have Neutral and a gear number though.
Fuel is showing one bar from empty. When the last bar goes out the fuel display flashes.
The low battery icon flashes when the voltage drops below twelve volts.
The Hall speed pickup is supplied with 7.5 volts. The magnets have a red mark on one side. This has to face away from the pickup or the sensor will not work. This is not mentioned in the instructions.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780405 08/03/19 3:28 am
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I finished the new rockerfeed with AN06 ends.
[Linked Image]

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780407 08/03/19 3:33 am
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Don't forget to tighten down that headbolt!


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780410 08/03/19 4:37 am
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The engine still needs all its guts put back in.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780419 08/03/19 11:32 am
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How are the fairing/gauge/headlight mounting bracket fastened at the steering frame tube? I have made a crude one for my Bridgestone that bolts on with U-bolts which works but is not great looking. Here you can see the bracket U-bolted back onto the steering head:
[Linked Image]
Tom

Last edited by koncretekid; 08/03/19 11:36 am.

Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780429 08/03/19 3:26 pm
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Two 1/2" tubes are welded across the front of the headstock. Typically telescoping tubes welded to a plate is used to adjust the fairing fore/back.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780548 08/04/19 7:45 pm
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I wish I could afford a Motogadget, but I can't, so I'd love to know the brand name of your speedo/tach. Thanks, Dave.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780584 08/05/19 1:45 am
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This one is made by Wupp. Bought it through AliExpress. Here is the official Wupp store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32953485118.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.68c44cecxcitc2&algo_pvid=7604bd8f-9508-44e0-ac59-9e846927d3cd&algo_expid=7604bd8f-9508-44e0-ac59-9e846927d3cd-1&btsid=52bca646-acc8-4f34-9edd-b3cb05142de2&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2,searchweb201603_52
Or search for "Universal Motorcycle Tachometer Wupp"
Prices are all over but be sure it includes the Hall speedometer pickup.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780603 08/05/19 1:02 pm
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old mule Offline
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Keep us updated on this interesting bike, please.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #780618 08/05/19 6:02 pm
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Thanks!

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #781408 08/13/19 7:45 pm
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Tried two other engine oil unions besides my original to get the AN06 hoses located around the wire hoop which kept the original rubber hoses away from the exhaust. Turns out the original was best with the feed hose going through the hoop and the return around the outside.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
The oil union might interfere with the oil pressure switch (for some reason the T150 and R3 switch locations differ). In that case I will block this one off and use one of my ported oil filter caps for the switch. Later I might add my multi-coloured oil light but for now I will use the marker lamp light in the speedo-tach.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #781676 08/16/19 10:13 pm
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Think you have your cases clean?
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Try spraying on WD-40 and use a nylon brush in a rotary tool:
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Possibly you can see the bright rings around the bolt holes in the centre case:
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
That is from the scraper indicating the metal was pulled a bit. These have to be removed so they do not interfere with mating the case parts.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #781692 08/17/19 2:31 am
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One of the high gear seal housing screws was stripped. I put in a Time-sert. I used the seal holder to find centre, then drilled, chamfered, tapped and installed the Time-sert on the mill.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
The screw is a half height hex socket head (Allen). I will get stainless screws for the final build.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #781696 08/17/19 3:30 am
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Installed the crank bearings and high gear bearing. Cases in the oven at 250F and bearings in the freezer.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
If the bearing does not start straight, knock it out and start again. Do not try to knock the bearing straight in the bore. It will gouge metal out of the bearing hole.
Packaging tape covers the bearings until ready to assemble.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #781855 08/18/19 3:58 pm
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Thank you - more, please.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #781952 08/19/19 4:15 pm
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Using the GS650 ND three phase generator but will change the mount for the GSXR600. The rotor weight of the ND is 44 oz versus 26.5 oz for the GSXR. The GSXR rotor is one piece whereas the GS is thicker casing with the centre riveted on.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Yes, will have to reroute the wires elsewhere.

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #782105 08/21/19 4:33 am
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The crank was set in the middle case and the caps torqued.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Old socks are good for protecting the rods and pistons.
I put the crank and centre case up on end using a piece of large tubing and plate so the crank sits on the web for assembling the end cases. It makes it easy to drop the case down on the centre section.
Notice I used a spacer on the bolt that goes through the inner primary to keep the clamping even.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
I used Loctite 574. This is what Porsche uses on the 911 cases. Being an anaerobic sealer it allows all the time you need to assemble the cases. Everything should turn freely at this point.
The inner gearbox case already had the dowels so I removed them from the main case. Insert a 1/4" rod into the dowel and use a pair of mole grips to twist them out.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
I had two choices for the camplate, the full round and the truncated plate. The truncated plate can be inserted with the high gear in place. The round plate must go in before the high gear. The truncated plate edge looks like it was cut on a band saw, very rough wavy marks across the plate. This will make shifting rough as the plunger moves across the ridges.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
I found another problem with the truncated plate, it will not turn the full range of the detents. Either the stop is too large a radius or they notched the case on later engines.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Not having used these cases before I checked the end float of the layshaft and found it was bound. The bearing in the drive side was not set into the cases far enough and the layshaft high gear hit the bearing before the thrust washer. There was a gasket between the inner case and centre section which probably made it work. I used the factory drift to set the bearing depth. With the inner case mounted I checked the end float with a dial indicator, using a magnet wand to pull/push the shaft.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
When installing the high gear it is a little difficult to get the rollers on to the shoulder. I made a sleeve (1.558" O.D. x 1.502" I.D.) with a 10 degree chamfer on the end. This is inserted into the roller bearing from the outside and the high gear is slipped in, replacing the sleeve.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
I find it difficult to juggle two shafts and three forks all at once. I put in the mainshaft first with the camplate in 5th.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Then wiggle in the layshaft with the forks sitting high to the fork shaft position, then move the gears around until the pins of the forks drop into the tracks. While you are doing this the mainshaft fork will probably fall out of the track. You have to reach in under the forks and lift it up into place. When all the fork pins are in the camplate, slide the fork shaft through. On the early engines the fork shaft is stepped and the hole goes through the drive side case. Put sealer on the stepped end of the fork shaft before installing.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
When installing the inner gearbox case the dowels would not align with the holes. This was due to the two studs being slightly bent. I used two long bolts with spacers to mount the inner case. I will probably cut off the head of the bolts and thread them to make studs. Faster than ordering new ones.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
With the camplate plunger out it is easy to go through the gears and check the operation.
I previously modified the shift lever shaft to use needle bearings in the inner and outer gearbox covers.
I made a roller plunger for the camplate and will try it in this.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #782301 08/23/19 4:59 am
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DMadigan Offline OP
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At some point the diameter of the seal surface on the gearbox sprocket changed. The early (right) sprocket seal diameter was 1.770". The later (left) sprocket seal diameter is 1.858". Same 2.375" O.D. on both seals. The early seal (National 473237) was double lipped, later single lip.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]
Waiting for a gearbox sprocket to finish the inner primary so preparing the cylinder. The tappets had some light scoring. Dressing on a Scotchbright disc cleaned up the surface.
[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]

Re: Wenco Frame Triple Racer [Re: DMadigan] #782316 08/23/19 11:05 am
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kommando Online Content
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If I had the choice I would go double lipped seal, the outer one acts as a grit shield at the expense of drag but the inner seal will last longer.

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