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Ethanol damage ? #780104 07/30/19 8:21 pm
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KC in S.B. Offline OP
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Fuel line received from MC parts supplier. It was fine for quite awhile, but then I thought it had Bubbles in it?? Nope, cracks!! Not leaking yet, but ready to cause a real issue! Cleaning before a local show last Saturday,...........Beware!

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Last edited by KC in S.B.; 07/30/19 8:25 pm.

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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780109 07/30/19 9:18 pm
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Allan Gill Online Happy
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It’s not ethanol that’s caused that. Ethanol will attract water but not
Distort pvc pipe, that’s the toluene in the fuel that’s done that.

You could soak the pipes in a bottle of vodka and that will “displace” the theory grin


beerchug
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780128 07/31/19 6:01 am
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DavidP Offline
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Tygon fuel lines: they're already yellow. Might as well start out with the color they're going to turn anyway.


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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780138 07/31/19 10:11 am
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Andy Higham Online Content
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PVC is one of the most unsuitable materials for petrol pipes, the petrol leeches the plasticiser out and it becomes hard and brittle. Yellow Tygon is great for fuel but do not use it with brake fluid.

Notice how everyone is quick to blame ethanol as a result of "ethanol project fear" put out by those who wish to make a quick profit


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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780142 07/31/19 11:18 am
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KC in S.B. Offline OP
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I did say,... Ethanol ? Because I am not sure. I am also not positive of the line material, just that is came from MC people, no data on the line itself. I have used "Superthane" in the past with good results. I thought this was that material, but maybe not.


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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780166 07/31/19 3:05 pm
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gunner Online Content
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Tygon fuel line is the best I have ever used, doesn't soften with age and is very flexible, watch out for Chinese fakes which don't have the Tygon trademark print.


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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780168 07/31/19 3:09 pm
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Ethanol is here to stay. Why? it reduces emissions by 10%, while decreasing your fuel mileage by 10% - - no savings. However, BIG bonus for the corn lobby. don't get me started on Ethanol..... frown

Sorry....rant over. This damage is from another additive...as previously stated. However....there are many problems caused by ethanol, primary due to the water it attracts. NOT a big a deal in Non-vented systems, as in modern vehicles.

Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780170 07/31/19 3:38 pm
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Hillbilly bike Offline
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There are hoses rated for use with alcohol blended fuels...They are black in color...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780182 07/31/19 4:31 pm
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mondtster Online Content
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One of the problems here in the US is that fuel formulations vary a lot by region, season, etc. You really don’t know what you’re getting when you pull up to the pump. This doesn’t look like an ethanol problem to me but it appears to be a poor choice in fuel line material to handle some of the other chemicals found in modern gasoline.

Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780204 07/31/19 7:45 pm
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Allan Gill Online Happy
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I used plastic fuel pipe like this once. Then I went back to the black hose. Even these eventually delaminate unless your buying the really good stuff. I’d rather have something that stayed flexible though, it’s not something you want to crack whilst in use.

I don’t see how the fuel is giving worse fuel mileage though, the burn characteristics will be far better than they were 40 years ago. But despite that it is made up of a blend/cocktail of nasties. Ethanol is only a small part of that and that depends on where the fuel was refined. Not everywhere uses that. But the alternative of making it so that you don’t need to add ethanol is a lot more expensive to produce...


beerchug
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: Allan Gill] #780206 07/31/19 8:09 pm
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Magnetoman Online Content
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Originally Posted by Allan Gill
I don’t see how the fuel is giving worse fuel mileage though,.
Ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline so as a result E10 reduces mileage by 3-4%. For the same reason if you run the closely-related compound methanol in a racing bike it requires much bigger jets. However, ethanol increases the octane rating of the fuel which certainly is a benefit. Also, scientific studies (as opposed to magazine articles) indicate the total overall CO2 emissions reduction of E10 is ~30%, which also is a benefit. These studies take into account the amount of C02 removed from the atmosphere by the corn less the amount returned by burning. With gasoline the C02 was removed from the atmosphere by the plants and animals millions of years ago so burning it today only generates CO2.

Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780207 07/31/19 8:10 pm
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Andy Higham Online Content
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One of the reasons Ethanol is added is to offset the lack of lead on the octane rating


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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780209 07/31/19 8:53 pm
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It’s to replace the products which were removed when stripping the Benzene from fuel, in cases where ethanol is used to replace it, it also replaces the groups of chemicals either side of benzene, of which get removed in the above process.

Lead has been removed from fuel in the UK for what must be over 20 years now. (Apart from a small handful of garages around the uk) there used to be a garage near me selling leaded fuel, I filled the tank up once and found shell V power performed better.


beerchug
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: Magnetoman] #780212 07/31/19 10:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
[quote=Allan Gill] Also, scientific studies (as opposed to magazine articles) indicate the total overall CO2 emissions reduction of E10 is ~30%, which also is a benefit. These studies take into account the amount of C02 removed from the atmosphere by the corn less the amount returned by burning. With gasoline the C02 was removed from the atmosphere by the plants and animals millions of years ago so burning it today only generates CO2.


Do you have the names those studies?


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780250 08/01/19 7:10 am
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I remember when I first had a bike the pipes went like that. I wasn't too bothered and when I had to take it off for some reason it felt really hard. I just used to push it back on with no clips and it actually didn't leak! There was no ethanol in the petrol then. Every other bike I looked at seemed to be the same.

I would not do this these days and use black car type tubing with clips.

I am all for ethanol if it means removing Benzene. Benzene stops your bone marrow from producing enough blood cells.



Dave

Last edited by dave jones; 08/01/19 7:16 am.
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: Hillbilly bike] #780267 08/01/19 3:44 pm
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Magnetoman Online Content
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Do you have the names those studies?
You've asked the impossible. Google Scholar has more than 400 hits for a search for 'emissions reduction E10' when I limit it to the ones published in the just first seven months of 2019. Research on ethanol in gasoline has been going on for more than 20 years so there are thousands of relevant studies.

Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780280 08/01/19 5:57 pm
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Cheap plastic pipes did this yellowing and got brittle long before ethanol became part of the fuel, eventually it becomes brown and almost rigid.
Ive seen these pipe kits and wondered, look good new, not for long. Black pipe for me , even at that it gets changed annually, unfortunately the neat collars wont work on 5/16 " ID black fuel pipe ( at least not the ones I have), they only work for 1/4 " stuff, most twins use 5/16" ID .


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Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780283 08/01/19 6:52 pm
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For those in US McMaster Carr stock the Tygon pipe and the ferrules to go with it.
HTH

Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780285 08/01/19 6:57 pm
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Andy Higham Online Content
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I use Tygon hose and Mikalor wire clips. They hold the hose firmly and can be released with a pair of pliers


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
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Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: Magnetoman] #780297 08/01/19 9:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Do you have the names those studies?
You've asked the impossible. Google Scholar has more than 400 hits for a search for 'emissions reduction E10' when I limit it to the ones published in the just first seven months of 2019. Research on ethanol in gasoline has been going on for more than 20 years so there are thousands of relevant studies.

Yes I reckon it's a very complex subject more complicated by speculation and politics...I will continue to state that a lot of problems blamed on E10 fuel is really poor materials and improper tune up..


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780324 08/02/19 2:53 am
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Just be glad that you don't need to buy fuel line rated for fuel injection, expensive. Or line rated for immersion in your petrol tank, even more expensive.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: DavidP] #780355 08/02/19 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by DavidP
Just be glad that you don't need to buy fuel line rated for fuel injection, expensive. Or line rated for immersion in your petrol tank, even more expensive.


I had to by submersible injection hose for a Ducati...20 bucks a foot..Regular injection hose, rated at 200 psi is about 3-5 bucks a foot.. There's numbers on hose. 30R7 and so on, this refers to the intended use...
.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: Ethanol damage ? [Re: KC in S.B.] #780364 08/02/19 2:55 pm
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Get my injection hose from Summit Racing (in the US).


Kurt

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