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Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #779661 07/25/19 5:17 am
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Originally Posted by Richrd
small town napas are the best there is, the owners actually know something. but since I average one plug cap every two years they don't stock them. the coils are set according to the diagram in the Boyer instructions. and I am always very thourough in running dedicated wires including clean grounds.

seems the easy test would be to pull the timing cover and pull the alt rotor.

new caps are ordered from baxters.


Sorry , had to ask , sometimes the simplest stuff gets missed .

Pulling the rotor is a great idea ... pulling the wires off the stator is simpler though ... wired ' em together ...
And you've eliminated the alternator and regulator as emf sources.

.

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Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #779777 07/26/19 6:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Richrd
RF, if this works I'll buy dinner next may.

Now where to get 5K caps now that the only good shop around closed.


You can get these most easily on Amazon. Click Here.

There are multiple shapes, you just want the simple 90° shorty. Those come in 2 styles, those that snap over the threaded spark plug top, and those that snap over the screw-on spark plug ferrule.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: t150, still no joy
John Healy #779780 07/26/19 6:55 pm
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Originally Posted by John Healy
When installing an EI on a Trident, or any other bike, one must remember that some some of these models alternator and trigger plate wires in the timing cover join together where they enter the wiring harness. They then run parallel to each other for a length inside the harness. This is problematic as the RF (radio frequency) broadcast by the alternator wires are picked up by the EI rigger wires. This will upset the EI, and while it might spark, it can be triggered by the RF. This can upset the EI to a point where it will not work at all, or fire randomly. The answer to this is to route the trigger wires away from, and not parallel, to the alternator wires.

Now that makes perfect sense.

When you kick the bike over, the RPM isn't enough to generate a strong pulse from the alternator. Alternator output being totally based on a combination of magnetic field strength, number of poles, AND speed of rotation.

Then, like holding a magnet near recording tape, the super strong signal from the alternator wiring totally over-writes the tiny impulse coming from the Hall effect devices on the Boyer "point plate". Most people assume these are very strong signals based on the 12V electrical system, but the Hall effect signal is extremely weak, probably running between 1 to 2 volts max !!

This is one reason to remove the stock 3-wire points harness, and replace it with an unbroken run of 2 wires, from the "points plate" all the way to the Boyer box connecting plugs. Then treat the plugs themselves with No-Ox compound. It's a tiny pulsing voltage, and it's also easily lost in dirty or corroded connectors.

Thanks, John.

thumbsup


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #779894 07/28/19 6:18 am
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+1 for running fresh wires. I like to use twisted-pair data cable for this.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #780037 07/30/19 12:42 am
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as much as i hate this bitch, I can only stand to look at her a few minutes a day. So i have been checking this and trying that.

pulled the front crank access plug to verify timing for the 50th time, Stuck my little finger in the plug hole and turned the rear tire. No pop.

Checked the compression and it's back down to 65 in one side and 50 on the other. that's where I started, with it going up with oil in the bores.

I'm ready to go roll it down a long hill in 2nd gear a couple times to try to seat the rings a bit better. really wish I had a set of rollers.

Oh, the ign timing is still set to the directions, and the alt rotor is pulled.


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #780144 07/31/19 12:01 pm
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i don't think it will run with the compression that low. you need to figure out why it is that low.

Originally Posted by Richrd


Checked the compression and it's back down to 65 in one side and 50 on the other. that's where I started,


windy
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Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #780153 07/31/19 2:21 pm
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When I first got my triple I tried to set the valves according to the factory manual procedure and got it all wrong. The compression on each cylinder had a different value so I went back to what made sense to me and set each pair of valves when the cylinder was at TDC on compression stroke and that did the trick. I know it sounds simple but if the valves aren't set right they can't do their job. Best of luck to you.


reliccycles.com
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #780230 08/01/19 12:29 am
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Curm, sounds reasonable, but I recheck clearances at tdc and they're all on.

I pulled the mufflers and air filter and preurized the two outer bores and went over it with a stethoscope. Only air I could hear was in the crankcase. which agrees with compression going up when I shoot oil in the hole. So this is a case of rings not sealing. But from the beginning, this is the third set of rings with the same results.


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #780238 08/01/19 2:14 am
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So is she with or without the 5K Ohm caps ?

I agree, the compression will need to be near 100psi to crank by foot power, but should rise dramatically if it ever gets running. I have cranked bikes as low as 50psi with very happy endings, but Beno has several sets of rollers we could use.

Best of luck, my friend.


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #780242 08/01/19 3:16 am
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yes 5k in ,,,alt rotor out


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798022 02/10/20 2:14 am
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If you have read thru this thread, we are now back working on this pig, still with no progress.

But I now have a set of rollors.

As I said above,, the confusing thing is not one pop or sputter.


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798034 02/10/20 9:20 am
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If the problem is really lack of spark and the carbs are working then the plugs should be getting wet, if they are not that suggests carbs are not providing enough fuel, a few drops of fuel down the spark plug holes should get some pop and sputters.

Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798037 02/10/20 2:40 pm
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As one Richard to another Richard----- I had a very similar problem on a T160 last year.
The battery was up to snuff and turning the engine over very quickly.
It had a Boyer Mk IV with new 4 volt coils.
The plugs sparked when held on the head but when the plugs were in the head I got--- Nothing!
I tried everything I could think of but with no success.
I happened to see a separate black box Trispark on special offer so bought it and installed it with new 12 volt coils.
I was not too optimistic but turned on the gas , set the choke and pressed the starter button.
I swear the bike started before my finger touched the button!
It has started promptly ever since.
What was the problem?---not sure---it could have been a coil shorting out internally but why did it not do that when the plug was sparking outside---maybe because the HT voltage required to spark under cylinder pressure is higher?
Maybe the Boyer black box misbehaving?--but this is essentially just a switch and I would not have thought it would be affected by whether the plug is inside or outside the cylinder.
Not too sure if this helps you or not---but that was my experience.

Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798054 02/10/20 7:39 pm
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I just. Ame from Baxter's, where I graciously parted with my lifes savings for cub and Norton parts. I almost bought a trispark, but decided to consider trying points once to see what happens


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798061 02/10/20 9:36 pm
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There was nothing gracious about it. smile


Furies and Apaches and Interceptors, oh my!
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798067 02/10/20 11:00 pm
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I so identify with this thread. I had a non-starter (twin) and was checking things over and over, buying fresh gas, fretting over compression, valves, endless kicking and getting kicked back. Was it electrical, was it carb?
Well finally I put in points and Zoom! I sent the Boyer to Coventry Spares and found it was N/G.
Try points. Good luck!


1966 BSA Lightning
(2) 1967 Triumph "Choppa"s
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Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798642 02/18/20 2:08 pm
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update,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I put points in the bitch and played with the timing a bit and................................................

NOTHING!

would it do any good to look at the carbs? they're new,

I'm ready to tear it all back down but I'm sick of it. if it would just pop I could sell it. maybe one of you guys would want to make a little money and fix it for me?

for sale, 74 t150, good looking bike.ran when parked.


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798643 02/18/20 2:20 pm
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Again--as one Richard to another----if you are serious about selling it-----how about some photos and an idea of how many greenbacks you would be looking for.
Nebraska is a long way from NJ but---I have travelled further for a bike!

Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798644 02/18/20 2:39 pm
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update,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I put points in the bitch and played with the timing a bit and................................................

NOTHING!

would it do any good to look at the carbs? they're new,

I'm ready to tear it all back down but I'm sick of it. if it would just pop I could sell it. maybe one of you guys would want to make a little money and fix it for me?

for sale, 74 t150, good looking bike.ran when parked.


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798648 02/18/20 2:55 pm
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Once I got to the point with my BBs that I was asking myself all too often, "Are we having fun yet?", that's when I sold them all.

Also, are motorcycles female? I usually cursed my bikes in a gender-neutral fashion, such as "[expletive deleted] bastard" or "[expletive deleted] POS" mad ... followed by self-denigrating comments.


Kurt

-- Don't believe everything you think.
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798668 02/18/20 10:54 pm
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just did one last pressure test
#1 80 dry 85 wet
#2 and 3 70 dry and 75 wet

should be enough to give me a pop or sputter. beginning to doupt my valve lash setting.

going to put it back on the table and do the cam timing again with pictures so you can see what I'm doing.


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798669 02/18/20 10:56 pm
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yes, she is definitely a she. if any male treated me this way he'd get a 2x4 up side thee head!


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #798671 02/18/20 11:22 pm
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If the valve timing is correct and the valve clearances are correct then 75 psig is very low.
I know that valve timing complicates the measurement but 75 psig is equivalent only to about a 5:1 compression ratio.
My rule of thumb is that you need 100 psig wet in order to fire up.
Anything less than this and starting gets problematic.

Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #799048 02/22/20 8:50 pm
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still no joy in springfield
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

compression readings are the same. left piston is up, right piston is down.

Can it be the cams. I'm sure I checked the numbers on the cams when I put it together and they were the right numbers. But does that mean they could not be wrong?

kHow can I do a quick check. What about varying the cam timing one tooth?


Rich (last remaining member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: t150, still no joy
Richrd #799053 02/22/20 10:04 pm
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Should be dot to dash on the inlet.

http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/Trident/69-73TridentRepair.pdf
pdf p.86 Section B30, Fig. B31.

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