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Re: ZB34 competition: is it a goldstar? [Re: Motolab] #783362 09/03/19 5:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Motolab
interesting stuff indeed...

Originally Posted by Mebbo

Now, as your sheet shows, 159 purportedly went to Bennett and Wood here in Sydney in December '48. The frame number shown, "2327", if that is the actual frame number, would be a 1950 frame... Curious.

well why should the 327 th spring frame NOT be a 1949's model year frame? it is only the 327'th S frame

who or where did you find it should be a 1950's frame number?



The question should be where did yo find frame number 327 when all the frame numbers listed start with 23XX.


Am I missing something here?


Bill B...


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Re: ZB34 competition: is it a goldstar? [Re: Boomer] #783366 09/03/19 6:05 pm
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Originally Posted by Boomer
What is the disconnect here. The list Motolab has posted shows three digit engine numbers yet the frame numbers are four digit.
I was out of the country when this recent exchange took place so I didn't look at that posted despatch sheet as closely as I might have. But, now that I have, note that there is no indication on it that the sheet is for Gold Stars. Or for any other model for that matter. Just engine numbers starting with 142 and frames starting from around 2300. A quick look at lists for 1949 models shows that all but one had engines and frames that both started at 101. The single exception is the M21, where the engines started at 101 but the frames started at 2201. Hmm...

Re: ZB34 competition: is it a goldstar? [Re: cas.vanderwoude] #783418 09/04/19 9:49 am
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AFAIK at one time there were 3 copies.
An original in the Science museum one with the BSAOA and another with the Vintage Club.
However weather they are all originals or some are transcriptions I have no idea never being in the position to examine any one of them.

Also remember that the loan BSA obtained to fund each season to cover that seasons production was secured against their inventory of both parts and completed bikes.
So at some point East Midlands Bank & Barclays Bank would need to be updated about production numbers & destinations by some sort of verifible means.
Weather this was by regular inspections of production records or by duplicate records has never been mentione in anything I have seen so it is not beyond belief that there may have been parallel records of some sort


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Re: ZB34 competition: is it a goldstar? [Re: cas.vanderwoude] #783438 09/04/19 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
AFAIK at one time there were 3 copies.
. "Copy" has several possible meanings so it is worthwhile to clarify this word because of ongoing confusion:

-- the original "copy" of the despatch records created at BSA
-- a contemporary duplicate "copy" created at BSA (such a "copy" may or may not have ever existed, and I've seen no evidence that it did)
-- a "photocopy" or "microfiche" of the original records
-- a transcribed "copy" made by someone outside the factory years later

Absence visual evidence to the contrary, I'll continue working under the assumption that there is only one original "copy" of the factory records. This copy was held by the Science Museum until sometime in the past twenty or so years when, because of downsizing, it was transferred to either the BSAOC or the VMCC. At the same time production records from other factories that also were held by the Science Museum were transferred to the appropriate clubs.

If sufficiently motivated, which I definitely am not, I could determine when that transfer was made, and to which club. The Gold Star Owners Club also has a "copy" of the GS portion of the BSA records but, absence visual evidence to the contrary, I'll continue to assume the "copy" they hold is either a "photocopy" or a "microfiche" of the relevant portion of the complete "copy" of the despatch records.

If someone is aware of two "copies" of despatch records having different information on them for a given bike, by all means post images of those two copies. Unless/until I see such side-by-side evidence, I'll continue to assume the factory only produced one set of despatch records. Note that the seemingly-conflicting information on Motolab's Gold Star isn't because there are two different "copies," but rather because the BSAOC gave him a page from the M21 despatch records by mistake.


Re: ZB34 competition: is it a goldstar? [Re: Magnetoman] #783495 09/05/19 6:13 am
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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
[Absence visual evidence to the contrary, I'll continue working under the assumption that there is only one original "copy" of the factory records. This copy was held by the Science Museum until sometime in the past twenty or so years when, because of downsizing, it was transferred to either the BSAOC or the VMCC. At the same time production records from other factories that also were held by the Science Museum were transferred to the appropriate clubs.

The VMCC holds (most of) the original BSA dispatch books, but because of potential damage does not make these available for general use.
They do have microfiche copies of the many books available for viewing by members and the general public. There are lots of books, so the head librarian organised to have the appropriate books noted for the machines I was interested in for my visit. Even then there was a full day's worth of sitting with my head twisted sideways to read the microfiches (most of the books were scanned sideways, unfortunately)

Some of the earlier years had 2 books for each machine, one with engine first and the other with the frame first.

The UK BSA Club also has microfiche, and now some electronic, copies as well. The former Machine Dating officer from the UK club gave an interesting talk at the 2018 International about the saga of making the microfiche copies.

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