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B33 project
#778799 07/16/19 12:17 pm
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Ive changed the name of this thread from "ID" to "project" because it has been moved up the project to do pecking order







Could this be an FB on the frame? If so it looks like both frame and motor are 1958 right.... ? And I thought only gold star frames had the dented frame at the bottom

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Last edited by wadeschields; 04/11/20 2:00 am. Reason: edited title of thread from ID to project

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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #778800 07/16/19 12:33 pm
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All pre-unit B & M singles had the notch in the frame to clear the oil pump. Since all were based on the pre-war M series, they retained that feature to the end.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #778801 07/16/19 12:37 pm
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All of the B series have the kink in the frame. Looks like you have a very early 1958 which will have the first alternator for electrics. That is a strange ‘F’!, but is what it should be.


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS
1956 Triumph T110

Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #778807 07/16/19 2:08 pm
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The lack of a kink in the frame identifies the frame as having a Twin engine fitted.

Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #778817 07/16/19 3:54 pm
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Hi Wade----those are not very common in US--at least not in the north east IME.
I picked one up a few years ago in northern NJ.
It is a bit of a bitsa--the frame number is EB31 84** which I think means the frame is a 1956 or 1957---probably the latter.
The engine is GB33 5** which I think means it is a 1958.
It has alternator electrics and is fitted with a QPD primary belt drive.
I had a hell of a job getting an outer primary cover---one with the saucepan shape to cover the alternator--but eventually got one from Draganfly in UK.
HTH

Re: B33 ID please
bsalloyd #778862 07/16/19 8:47 pm
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Originally Posted by bsalloyd
All of the B series have the kink in the frame. Looks like you have a very early 1958 which will have the first alternator for electrics. That is a strange ‘F’!, but is what it should be.
It looks a bit like there wasn't an 'F' stamp available, requiring a bit of creativity.

The engine number is quite low and so is the frame number, so it would have been built very early in the model run. Wade will need aside trip at the BSA International to visit the VMCC library at Burton on Trent.

Re: B33 ID please
Shane in Oz #778878 07/16/19 10:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Shane in Oz
[quote=bsalloyd]

The engine number is quite low and so is the frame number, so it would have been built very early in the model run. Wade will need aside trip at the BSA International to visit the VMCC library at Burton on Trent.



So its quite possibly a matching engine and frame.... Previous owner wasnt sure but said its the pair that came to him..... Ill have to layout all the boxes to see whats there and whats not.... No fenders and no seat is all I know for sure at this point.

VMCC library sounds great thumbsup


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #778880 07/16/19 11:07 pm
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Originally Posted by wadeschields
VMCC library sounds great thumbsup
I'm a member, but you don't have to be to visit the library and go through the records.
I've already lined up a day there with my list of engine and frame numbers while Cheryl goes off doing touristy things.
The head librarian seems a rather nice woman, and has been very helpful so far.

Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #787312 10/17/19 12:28 pm
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From the dispatch book

"The numbers match, it was dispatched from The BSA factory on 30/11/1957 to Bsa inc (I think) which is East coast. It’s model is stated as B33B"


What does B33B mean?? Special trim ....base model..?


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #787800 10/22/19 7:21 am
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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #804853 04/11/20 1:55 am
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Started mocking up the bike tonight... Went from parts in a box to looking like a bike pretty quickly. Missing some stuff like headlight , seat , fenders and Ill need new rims as these are rusty but I am pretty happy overall ... Photos tomorrow ....


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #804967 04/12/20 4:02 am
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After just a few hours Friday night .. From boxes to something that resembled a bike ... now is this enough to make a proper B33 or not enough original parts and to go cafe/custom style ..... That is the question ....

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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #804968 04/12/20 4:02 am
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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #804969 04/12/20 4:04 am
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And why is there a distributor if its a Alternator model. And what attaches where the mag did ?


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #804988 04/12/20 9:25 am
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dizzy goes in the mag hole .
alternator charges a battery ... battery runs ignition and lights .

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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #805036 04/12/20 5:09 pm
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Thanks Quinten.... Im missing that cap on the primary cover too. Is that your bike...? Got a better photo showing the side stand lug. I seem to have the wrong one...
Any and all photos would be appreciated ... I work better from photos


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #806338 04/23/20 3:31 am
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Inner side stand lug coming my way from England.... A lucky find ... As long as its the right size .... Now I need to get the rest of the side stand...


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #806618 04/25/20 2:39 am
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i had '54 about 20 yrs ago and it cost me a small fortune to do.it was together,but missing about the same stuff as yours.it was my one and only b-33 experience.it probably had led a pretty hard life,but i'm not sure what is "normal' on those.mine had been used off road and was fairly thrashed. there were cracks in the case and the oil pump drive shaft that runs bushing-less in the case had worn the hell out of the case to the point that drive gear engagement was "iffy" at best. your lucky its not a magdyno unit as the dowels that register in the case had wallowed out the slots making proper gear alignment a drama.round dowel's in an aluminum slot are poor engineering after all the money spent and a definite lack of spares support (i was living in the u.s.) i swore i'd never own another. if i was driven to own another and just HAD to have one,i'd bite the bullet and buy an ABSAF motor,unless i knew where a truck load of spare parts are hidden as it was just totally worn out.i'm sure they have their adherants and advocates. i cut costs a bit by installing a belt drive, and while the down side it eliminated the cush drive,it wasnt going to be flogged anymore at least by me.pleasant to drive, UNPLEASANT to start,but it sure was a pretty thing!

Last edited by jaycee; 04/25/20 5:38 am.
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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #807297 04/30/20 4:13 pm
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Wade,
Rerminds me of my B50 which came in 3-4 boxes and a locked up motor. Had to mock it up just to see what was missing. I might do one again someday. It would have to be a big single, preferable a GS but they are not within easy reach anymore unless you your pockets flush with cash. Good luck with your project and thanks for posting all those pics. I found one of those up at Mid Ohio years ago but it was just missing too much for the price he was asking. I never understood why these bikes often have so many missing parts. Yours looks like most of it is there. Great find!

Mr Mike

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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #807308 04/30/20 6:15 pm
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Wade, It looks like they are denoting the main color after the model type. Some of the others on the list are marked "Blk" Looks like yours was entered by another person than normal, different handwriting. Might have thought that 'B' was enough to denote black,possibly a little lazy?


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS
1956 Triumph T110

Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #807317 04/30/20 8:46 pm
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My tins are blue right now so If they are original .... I had not come to that conclusion yet... But I'll look closer .... Then blk as black and maybe "b" for blue??? Who knows ... I cant even read where mine was dispatched too.......


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #809082 05/16/20 4:19 am
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Found a gear change lever in my stash but noticed how bad one of my oil seal holders is . Anyone have an extra one ? Is it my imagination or do mine look different then the ones drawn in the parts book? One step forward one back....

Also What the difference between a STD 2 gear box and just a STD box?

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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #809087 05/16/20 6:58 am
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Those oil seal holders are a unique 1 year old only type, used on Unit twins, maybe unit singles also.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #809114 05/16/20 4:01 pm
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Mine look more like ones for B44s . as in these

https://www.eBay.com/itm/97-2514-NOS-BSA-FORK-SEAL-HOLDERS-CHROME-B44-C15-B25-T215-TROPHY-VICTOR-441/362952860099?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225074%26meid%3Dfe831d54a3b34147b56a619b1a9ffc28%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D133020462289%26itm%3D362952860099%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DBSA&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5a5b6328-978e-11ea-a9d6-aa33957dd1ba%7Cparentrq%3A1e370faf1720a4e8660c6855ffd55686%7Ciid%3A1

I should probably have these
https://thebonnevilleshop.com/bsa-a...fork-seal-holders-pn-29-5310-or-41-5142/


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #809115 05/16/20 4:23 pm
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Got a pair on CBS .... Just so happen to be on sale and they are a Britbike sponsor ..... WIN WIN !!!!


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Re: B33 ID please
wadeschields #809119 05/16/20 5:14 pm
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Originally Posted by wadeschields
My tins are blue right now so If they are original .... I had not come to that conclusion yet... But I'll look closer .... Then blk as black and maybe "b" for blue??? Who knows ... I cant even read where mine was dispatched too.......



There were only two distributors in the US at that time, East coast; BSA US Nutley, and West coast; Hap Alzina. So I would conclude it went to Alzina. I don't believe blue was a color available, only red or black depending on model. So again I would conclude black.

As for the STD 2, the 2 denotes that needle roller bearings were used on both shafts as opposed to bushings.


Bill B...


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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809140 05/16/20 10:01 pm
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Hi Wade / Boomer,

Quote
As for the STD 2, the 2 denotes that needle roller bearings were used on both shafts as opposed to bushings.

I do not believe this is so, The needle roller boxes have "T" to denote Torrington needle roller bearing fitment

STD2 is a wide ratio gearbox fitted to US market Super Rockets (based on that I have never seen one over here)

The BSA gearbox data is in this BB thread,, http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=15504

I do not know how this wide ratio gearbox would work out on a B33 ?? Peter Quick did not seem to like it ??

John

Last edited by chaterlea25; 05/16/20 10:01 pm.
Re: B33 project
chaterlea25 #809149 05/17/20 2:06 am
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Originally Posted by chaterlea25
Hi Wade / Boomer,

Quote
As for the STD 2, the 2 denotes that needle roller bearings were used on both shafts as opposed to bushings.


John


Okay, I was going by the difference between the RRT and RRT2 where the RRT has the rollers on one shaft and the RRT2 has rollers on both shafts.


Bill B...


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Re: B33 project
Boomer #809157 05/17/20 4:17 am
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The T2 denotes Torrington needle bearing in the "A" gear. These are only in two clusters (RR T2, SC T2). The STD 2 "A"gear is a 42-3088 with no needle bearing. Same as SC T, ARRT, ASC T,


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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809232 05/17/20 10:13 pm
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So my B33 came with the STD 2 box but I also have the STD box as well. Which one would be better to use ? and why?


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Re: B33 project
BritTwit #809254 05/18/20 2:23 am
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Originally Posted by BritTwit
The T2 denotes Torrington needle bearing in the "A" gear. These are only in two clusters (RR T2, SC T2). The STD 2 "A"gear is a 42-3088 with no needle bearing. Same as SC T, ARRT, ASC T,


So what does it mean for the gearbox on my fathers A10 that has just T2 and no other letters?

Also does this mean that ALL the pre unit boxes were bushes layshafts? I was lead to believe that some had needle rollers there but could be an old wives tale


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Re: B33 project
BritTwit #809265 05/18/20 4:11 am
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Originally Posted by BritTwit
The T2 denotes Torrington needle bearing in the "A" gear. These are only in two clusters (RR T2, SC T2). The STD 2 "A"gear is a 42-3088 with no needle bearing. Same as SC T, ARRT, ASC T,


I disagree, the "T" denotes the needle roller on the layshaft, I believe it is in the blind hole. The "T2" denotes needle rollers on the layshaft end AND the "A" gear. In other words both (2) shafts.


Bill B...

Last edited by Boomer; 05/18/20 4:17 am.

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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809268 05/18/20 4:44 am
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Originally Posted by wadeschields
So my B33 came with the STD 2 box but I also have the STD box as well. Which one would be better to use ? and why?
The STD gearing is probably more useful for general use. That was the STanDard gearbox used on most swingarm pre-unit A & B series BSAs. The others were for specific uses (TRIals, SCrambles, Road Race) so had different ratios. Who knows what they were thinking right at the end of the pre-unit manufacture?

Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809269 05/18/20 4:48 am
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Howdy Wade

That’s a great looking project you have

I have an early swing arm ‘54 B33 with a magdyno set up and std box

They’re a blast to ride

S


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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809270 05/18/20 5:20 am
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Wade: When I look at the complete chart for all the various gearboxes I see that the STD 2 uses the same layshaft as the STD box and thus will not have any needle bearings. A STD T box would have needles on the layshaft. The difference between the STD box and the STD 2 is that there is a different high gear pair of gears. The STD 2 has a 25/18 pair where as the STD has a 26/17 pair. These pairings change the overall ratio of the other gear pairs as they all go through the high gear pairing to drive the sprocket.

So with the boxes you have it would just be deciding on which ratios would be best for your type of riding.

Gordo


The roadside repairs make for the best post ride stories.
Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809370 05/18/20 10:06 pm
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Hi All,
On the bottom right hand corner of the gearbox data sheet a table shows the ratios

ARRT, ASC, ASC.T and STD2 all share the same ratios, 2.877, 1.754, 1.325 and 1:1

There are more gear tooth differences than the A gears between STD2 and STD

T. gearboxes have needle roller bearings on both ends of the layshaft (do not confuse with TRI which is bush )
T2. gearboxes have another needle roller bearing in the A mainshaft gear (A)


Wade for normal road use fit the STD gearbox

John

Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809394 05/19/20 12:06 am
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Thanks All !! Good info!!


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Re: B33 project
Salty Dog #809395 05/19/20 12:11 am
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog
Howdy Wade

That’s a great looking project you have

I have an early swing arm ‘54 B33 with a magdyno set up and std box

They’re a blast to ride

S

One was loaned to me in New Zealand back in 2010 for the BSA Rally and fell in love with singles ..... One more cog in the obsession works.... I am looking forward to getting this on the road.... Although I have other things on the burner as well... Some closer to being runners then this one....


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Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #809939 05/22/20 7:45 pm
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So as I am collecting parts and getting inspiration , I have pretty much decided to go with headlight fork ears instead of trying to find an original nacelle and the heavy fenders... call it the sportier American look I guess.... My question is for the fork ears. Will any of them fit my forks ? Are there differences in the years as far as fitment? Ill probably go with the same headlight that came on my 66 Spitfire with the dial switch since I have most of a spare one.


http://wadeschields.tumblr.com/

Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

Beer is not the Answer.... Its the Question..... The answer is YES

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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #810013 05/23/20 3:17 pm
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And with the click of a button I change my mind.... Who knows where this project will wind up.... a few beers last night and I am now (soon to be) the new owner of an original rear mudguard . Found it by accident because I was looking for the seat bracket and this popped up because it had the bracket I was looking for and others as well. plus tail light . Im pretty chuff but now I will have to find a front fender and then decide on Nacelle or not.... ??? I guess it all comes down to what becomes available.... Another trouble with the nacelle route is then I am locked into the correct speedo and switches and what not because they go in the tin work .... That could get crazy.....


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Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

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Re: B33 project
wadeschields #810238 05/25/20 4:19 pm
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I think any of the B, M, A series fork ears will work. The A65's are shorter between the triple tree.


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS
1956 Triumph T110

Re: B33 project
wadeschields #810863 Yesterday at 10:05 PM
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Wade: From what I have seen the only A65 fork ears that will not work are those from the cranked down upper triple models. Most should work.

Gordo


The roadside repairs make for the best post ride stories.
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