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Sidefloat Amal for J ? #778775 07/16/19 5:09 am
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Rohan Offline OP
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Amongst the spare bits for my J is a sidefloat AMAL,
with a (correct ?)(1 1/8" ?) - a larger bore than whats currently on it.
This is the long necked version, to clear the magdyno.
No numbers stamped on it, which is odd (?).

When I assemble it with cobbled up and scrounged bits,
it looks like the fuel level is above the holes in the side of the body,
which would lead to fuel coming out everywhere ?!
Haven't actually tried this yet, but I did observe someone else with the same problem,
and he only resolved that by changing to a different model of carb.

Inspection shows the 'union nut' or collar (arrowed) as the short variety, as listed for this application on Hitchcocks parts lists.
Anyone know what trick is required to make this operable, I can see this as a disaster in the making !?
Raising the floatbowl by using the short union nut seems contradictory by making the fuel level too high to operate safely ?
Or were these bodies with the 4 side holes an earlier model, and set up differently somehow ?
Any insights appreciated, someone must have done/conquered this ??

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Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #778776 07/16/19 5:26 am
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Rohan Offline OP
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And the 2 breather holes (per side).

[Linked Image]

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #778784 07/16/19 7:32 am
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George Kaplan Offline
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Hi Rohan,

The earlier pre-monoblock Amals have the holes that you describe and the later ones (from about 1940 on) don't.

I looked for a description on Burlens site but couldn't see one (although it was a very quick scan) however I have borrowed the following paragraph from Radco's book:

"There are two types of pre-Monobloc, one where the primary air to the main jet and pilot jet enter jointly through the main air intake (models 274, 275, 276, 289) and the other where the main jet primary air comes in through four visible ports around the base of the mixing chamber, and where the air supply to the pilot jet is separate (types 74, 75, 76, 89)."

I have an early one on my 30's Triumph and it works fine. However its on the bike so cant take pictures of all of its components so you can see if anything is missing from yours and it is so long since I had it in bits I cant remember all of the minor details. However if you called Burlen then perhaps hay could supply a drawing and, if required, the missing parts. Certainly my carb doesn't leak and works fine.

John

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #778906 07/17/19 5:22 am
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Rohan Offline OP
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Thanks John, I'm sure it can be done, since they were supplied new and worked, once-upon-a-time.
Burlen don't make prewar parts (?), so I may be on my own here. ?
Hitchcocks may know something about them, since Enfields are their bread'n'butter.
Prewar stuff is becoming but a distant memory, however.

If ever you have your tank off, this is the view I'd be most interested in.
[Linked Image]

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #778917 07/17/19 7:13 am
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George Kaplan Offline
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Originally Posted by Rohan
Burlen don't make prewar parts (?), so I may be on my own here.


My Trump was a basket case and the carb that was with it was a slightly later one and in awful condition. I spoke to Burlen to get an new one (this was in 2011) and they said:

"Your bike will have had a 76/112 this was an right hand 1” long bodied carburetter with a flange, we don’t manufacture this body. Long bodies were generally used to give clearance over a mag or similar behind the engine.

We are able to supply a 76/014 body carb, this is right hand 1” in a standard length body.
"

So they might be able to help you as they do do some type 76 stuff for sure. I went with the standard body which does fit OK.

Looking at the email thread they did say that the range of type 76 bodies were limited.


Originally Posted by Rohan

If ever you have your tank off, this is the view I'd be most interested in.


I will see what I can do. I wont be taking the tank off soon but it doesn't have an air filter so I will see if I can get a shot down the bore with the tank on. Give me a day or two.

John

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: George Kaplan] #778922 07/17/19 8:36 am
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Rohan Offline OP
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Originally Posted by George Kaplan

I wont be taking the tank off soon but it doesn't have an air filter so I will see if I can get a shot down the bore with the tank on. Give me a day or two.


Its the location and height of the float thats the critical bit for me, rather than a perfect view down the bore, so a shot from the float side could be most instructive.
I've been contemplating bits of this project for quite some time, so "a day or 2" is neither here nor there in the scheme of things - thanks in advance !
This bike already has a fully functional later carb on it, but a smaller bore than it would like.
I've also got this as a backup - that magdyno really is a hurdle to get over...
Cheers.

[Linked Image]

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #779037 07/18/19 12:56 pm
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richardvy Offline
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Rohan, the difference between type 76 (pre war) and 276 is the body and jet block.
I am pretty sure all other parts are interchangeable
I suspect the issue with petrol height in the float bowl is the float needle
There are 2 types of float, plastic and copper and each has the slot on the needle in a different position
New float needles have 2 slots, one marked P for plastic and the other slot C for copper

Richard

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #779066 07/18/19 7:55 pm
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George Kaplan Offline
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Here are 3 pictures including one of the float side. My carb has the float on the right and because the carb is angled up the float has a 7 degree angle on the connection to the carb so the float stays vertical.

The pic down the carb bore is actually via a mirror as there is very little room between carb and oil tank/frame tube.

If you need a different angle or detail then let me know.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

John

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #779079 07/18/19 10:49 pm
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Rohan Offline OP
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Thanks John, that is excellent.
What I can instantly see is that your carb has the longer union 'nut' under the mixing chamber,
so the the float has extra height to work with.
If Burlen supplied all that, then they should have that union fitting available,
and that would fix my problem. (I still wonder how the original bits worked though)
It is all a bit crowded in there, isn't it.

Many Thanks !

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #779114 07/19/19 10:58 am
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George Kaplan Offline
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Glad I could be of help. Burled provided the complete carb so they should have the parts that you need.

Originally Posted by Rohan
It is all a bit crowded in there, isn't it.!

It is. I only just have enough room to unscrew the bellmouth. If I leave the bellmouth on then there isn't enough clearance to remove the carb from the studs. So to remove the carb you have to remove the bellmouth first and then you just have enough room.

Going back to Burlens email, where they said I needed a long body to clear the magdyno, a long body couldn't be correct as it would not fit in the available space.

If you need anything else then give me a shout.

John

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: George Kaplan] #779481 07/23/19 12:45 pm
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George Kaplan Offline
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I had thought that this topic was sorted however here is a post script.

Originally Posted by George Kaplan
Certainly my carb doesn't leak and works fine.

There is no finer way to ensure that something doesn't work than by declaring that it works fine.

I haven't used this bike since last year and decided it was high time to put some more miles on it. Last time out I drained the tank of fuel and I "usually" drain the carb too. After checking things over I put some fresh fuel in the tank and it poured out of the carb due to both a leaky tap and a leaky float valve.

Float bowl off, cleaned and back on the bike and all was well when I refilled it with fuel.

The bike started on its second kick and I set off on a trip around the block. Living in a rural area this "block" is about 18 miles long. It ran like a dog and would only run on choke, with no choke it just died at any throttle position.

I guess I didn't drain the carb last time out!

Anyway, I have some time today so I took the carb off and cleaned it with both thinners and carb cleaner and finished it off with a trip through an ultrasonic tank. I am unable to test ride today due to unavoidable other issues but hopefully it is fixed. When I took it apart I took a couple more pics in case you need them.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

John

Re: Sidefloat Amal for J ? [Re: Rohan] #779930 07/28/19 8:52 pm
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Rohan Offline OP
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Thanks.
Sorry to hear we jinxed your AMAL too !
That chrome plated slide looks gorgeous, as does the whole shebang.
Interesting the AMAL logo on the body itself.

With a bit of fossicking around I turned up a longer union nut in a suitable diameter,
so this AMAL seems to be good shape now, all I have to do is assemble and try it.
New fibre washers are likely needed here, or it may not be a fair test.

I also found some words that state the longer union nut is for amals that are tilted,
and shorter union nut is for amals that are mounted level (no downwards tilt).
It still doesn't seem the fuel level would be right, but they must have been good when new. ?


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