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Re: New Square four Project [Re: Stuart] #724901
02/09/18 5:49 pm
02/09/18 5:49 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
Stuart,
Perhaps I should have said that maybe the wheels are the same as those specified for BSA since the front brake is a BSA item.
Not sure about the rear, but there is some mixing of brands here.

BTW we've decided just to lean on Dranganfly for our wheel needs. Too many variables and too easy to get the wrong parts.

Cheers,
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 02/09/18 5:51 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
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Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #725596
02/14/18 6:14 pm
02/14/18 6:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 142
SoCal
P
Phil R Offline
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Phil R  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 142
SoCal
Hi Bill,
I was cruising other forums when I came across your Ariel project. I'm not an Ariel guy (BSA mostly) but my brother has owned a '53 Square for quite some time.
He replaced the wheel rims way back and I ended up as the recipient of the rims that were on the bike when he acquired it in the Nineties. Just for interest sake and for FWIW I can verify that both
rims are Dunlop items (WM2-19 front, WM3-18 rear). They're not too bad for a rider but could due with a re-chrome for a nice restoration. I doubt this information will be of much use to you, but figured I'd throw it out
there just for general information. If I can figure out photo posting I'll share a pic of the bike with the Dunlop rims when he picked it up from the seller.

Good luck with the "Squariel" !

Phil

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
Butch's Ariel as found 2.jpg (711 downloads)
'53 Ariel Square Four
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #725640
02/14/18 11:59 pm
02/14/18 11:59 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
I'm thinking that Ariel changed the wheel rims when they went to the BSA front brake. Not completely sure about that.
On Triumph's at least, there is a part # Wxxx or Wxxxx stamped on them. This helps tremendously when building up a bike and allows for cross referencing to other brands. Right now, we have a set of 36 hole rims that may have come off an Ariel but probably didn't come on a Square Four. The centers are painted the maroon color.
don't know what to do with those at the moment.

Cheers,
Bill


Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 02/14/18 11:59 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: Phil R] #725769
02/16/18 4:19 am
02/16/18 4:19 am
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 51
CALIFORNIA
S
slow learner Offline
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slow learner  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 51
CALIFORNIA
Sorry for diverting the thread, I am resurrecting a '53 square four. Phil R can you tell me what carburetor is on your brothers bike ? Are you interested in selling the rims you have (my front is not correct- spokes all bend at the nipple). H Tiger, 36 holes is not correct and the rims definitely changed when they switched from the single sided hub to the full width version (happened in '56). The front axle and front fork sliders also changed in '56.

Larry


Laurence Luce
Re: New Square four Project [Re: slow learner] #725826
02/16/18 6:27 pm
02/16/18 6:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 142
SoCal
P
Phil R Offline
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Phil R  Offline
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P

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 142
SoCal
Larry

I sent a message to your email.

Phil

Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #765067
02/10/19 7:09 pm
02/10/19 7:09 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
This thread has been dormant for a while. Not my fault! Bear has been busy 1. Making more money. 2. Playing with his Nortons (no, really) 3. Doing weird things like kithchen remodeling to please his wife. I kid you not.

But finally the Nortons are looking good, the wife ran out of honey-doos and Bear sold a Triumph. Time to get back on the Ariel.

So, we've been assembling suspension and wheels to get a roller, then the big move; Installing that gorgeous motor.


Here's that salty sailor taking off protecting tape from the frame.

[Linked Image]002

[Linked Image]003

He called me last night distraught over the primary and contents. He doesn't know how it goes together and I suspect he is missing the hub and roller bearing and possibly the gearbox adjuster hardware.

We're making up a long list of parts to order from Draganfly, including hardware, wiring harness, controls and cables. I'm shooting for a summer ride myself. Weather here is inclement most of the time so lots of shop time is possible.

My job, as I see it, is to push Bear to do the highest quality job on this most deserving motorcycle.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #765083
02/10/19 10:45 pm
02/10/19 10:45 pm
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 155
Hawaii USA
C
cas.vanderwoude Offline
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cas.vanderwoude  Offline
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C

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 155
Hawaii USA
hi Bill,
Let me know if you have any old parts spare after the restoration. I might be able to use them.

Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #765092
02/11/19 1:44 am
02/11/19 1:44 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
Will do, Cas. There might be some wheels and parts, and a lot of hardware left over. I'll ask bear to make a list.

So, Bear couldn't resist just hanging on some finished parts just to visualize the final product.

[Linked Image]004

[Linked Image]005

Hell of a storm we're having at the moment here. This is a good time to spend indoors with bikes....

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #765122
02/11/19 2:12 pm
02/11/19 2:12 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 844
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
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O

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 844
Overland Missouri
Very deserving project indeed.

Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #765379
02/14/19 7:09 pm
02/14/19 7:09 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
Test fitting more items.

[Linked Image]001

Working up a parts list for Draganfly now, including wiring harness, cables, chains, etc. We have a Chrono speedo, but untested. That's a long lead item and pricey, too. I'd best see if it works......

Trying hard to hold back Bear from just throwing whatever on the bike just to get it done. (ie, blue back wheel hub, rusty rim and dodgey spokes)

I have a real interest in making this one nice. These bikes would routinely beat me out of a trophy at a bike show for no other reason than they are technically more interesting than an old Triumph.

Cheers,
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 02/14/19 7:10 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #765990
02/20/19 11:34 pm
02/20/19 11:34 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
Anyone know where I can score a red spot Lucas ammerter?

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #771650
04/20/19 10:49 pm
04/20/19 10:49 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
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HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
Progress is happening, but slowly. Right now we're trying to sort out the clutch assembly.

[Linked Image]001

It appears as though we are missing the inner race to the needle roller and we can't make heads or tails of the parts book at this point.
Does anyone have a part number or description of this part? My friend is trying to turn one up on the lathe, but that isn't going to work unless he can have it hardened, which he doesn't know anything about.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: gunner] #771717
04/21/19 9:18 pm
04/21/19 9:18 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 552
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
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chaterlea25  Offline
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C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 552
Cork Ireland
Hi Bill,
As such there is no separate inner bearing race, the rollers run directly on the clutch shaft adaptor
The adaptor sleeve has a "splined" outer end that the clutch inner drum fits onto
There are thrust washer(s) between the chainwheel and inner drum
Beware of some replacement roller bearings that are supplied at 3/32in. (.093) diameter (this is the wall thickness of the bearing cage/bush)
If these are fitted the chainwheel will have 14 thou radial play,
In my experience all the originals were 0.100 diameter, I have rebuilt at least six different Ariel models so reasonably familiar with them

The earlier Burman gear boxes had the adaptor as one piece with the gearbox main shaft
which meant a gearbox strip to change the output sprocket

John

Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #771718
04/21/19 9:30 pm
04/21/19 9:30 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
OK, thanks, that answers a lot. Seems as though we have the wrong adaptor sleeve. Ours is a short bugger, with no place for the roller to ride on and, besides that, it's too small in diameter.
Looks as though we're on the hunt again.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #771804
04/22/19 10:11 pm
04/22/19 10:11 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 552
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
BritBike Forum member
chaterlea25  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 552
Cork Ireland
Hi Bill,
In this eBay link you can see the part you need, fitted to the gearbox shaft
https://www.eBay.co.uk/itm/Burman-GB-Gearbox/143216666195

It looks like its part number 3766-52,
https://www.draganfly.co.uk/images/shop/14/19GB.gif

https://www.draganfly.co.uk/a65anda50/product/6811-clutch-adapter-sleeve/category_pathway-1423

HTH
John

Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #771807
04/22/19 10:57 pm
04/22/19 10:57 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
Thanks,
I owe you one!
Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #771871
04/23/19 8:34 pm
04/23/19 8:34 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 552
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
BritBike Forum member
chaterlea25  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 552
Cork Ireland
Hi Bill
Happy to help when I can
I did some miles on a Sq 4 a few years ago,
It was for a photo shoot for a magazine article, I found it to be a nice ride once I got some miles on it

John

Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #776613
06/16/19 7:07 pm
06/16/19 7:07 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,338
Maui Hawaii
This thread is closed. I won't be working on this machine any longer.
Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: New Square four Project [Re: HawaiianTiger] #776950
06/20/19 5:03 pm
06/20/19 5:03 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 235
Santa Fe, Texas
B
bsalloyd Offline

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bsalloyd  Offline

BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 235
Santa Fe, Texas
A friend in Houston, TX has one. He is a member he on the forum with user name: samsmc1


1951 ZB GS
1953 BB GS
1953 Super Flash
1954 Vincent BS
1963 RGS
1956 Triumph T110

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