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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775678 06/05/19 1:21 pm
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I like your crank holding jig!!


beerchug
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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775684 06/05/19 2:31 pm
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i made that out of a cherry flat back before keith richards had wrinkles. when fruit was still shipped in boxes made of wood.
[Linked Image]

fits into an american milk crate for support

[Linked Image]

you can hang the rods down in the middle or lay them to the side.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775716 06/05/19 8:01 pm
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I clamp the crank by the flywheel in the vise so it sits horizontal...I use an old beam torque wrench because my fancy are more suited for car engines..The R&R rods in my Triumh racer are tightened to 55 ft pounds...The MAP rods in the double are 26 ft lbs I think...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #775717 06/05/19 8:03 pm
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
I clamp the crank by the flywheel in the vise so it sits horizontal...I use an old beam torque wrench because my fancy are more suited for car engines..The R&R rods in my Triumh racer are tightened to 55 ft pounds...The MAP rods in the double are 26 ft lbs I think...


The vice method has been my way but I quite like the cherry box Jig. Eliminates any chance of damaging anything when placing it in the vice.


beerchug
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775724 06/05/19 10:11 pm
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right now i'm claying the fresh pistons.

[Linked Image]

wanted a hone on new rings but when i measured the clearance was just out of spec. so i took my other two pistons and ground away at the intake valve pockets in advance. didn't grind enough, so i took some more off. that still wasn't enough, so i said fuggit and i'll finish it tomorrow, then button it all up.

mostly i have plenty of depth clearance, it's just around the valve margin because the intakes are oversize. exhausts too, all but one is okay.

[Linked Image]


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775888 06/08/19 2:07 am
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got up at 0400, as usual. got dressed, fed the cat, opened up the shop, get the bike ready, looked at my telephone.

a message from 1100 the previous night. so i called.

how'd you like to stay home today? water's low everywhere and we have enough trucks.

ooh says i, twist my arm, with like three more weekends to get the bike ready and the right intake valve still kissing the edge of the pocket. before:

[Linked Image]

so i ground away some more from that piston until i was happy with it. after:

[Linked Image]

took my old thinned half-inch combination and put the torque wrench on it. reduced to a setting of 27 foot-pounds gives 35 at the nut:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

and then put on the rings, dry, and smeared one drop of brad penn 30W break-in oil on each thrust surface of the piston skirts, no oil on the cylinders, copper coat sprayed on the sheet copper base gasket. then lowered the jugs.

[Linked Image]

i don't used ring compressors, because i can never get them to work for me, i just slowly lower the cylinders down and squeeze the rings in with my fingertips. takes one minute and always works.

[Linked Image][Linked Image]


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775890 06/08/19 2:20 am
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then put on dave madigans most excellent adjustable pushrod tubes. have to use something like these because i've lifted the tappet guide blocks to clear the 0.375-inch cam from megacycle.

[Linked Image]

i don't use the square seals on these things, just four identical tappet block O-rings, one above and one below, and then set the crush to around 0.011, because they're so incompressible. with some loctite 518 on them they didn't leak a drop before, and i'm hoping they don't leak this time around.

set the timing to 30 BTDC with the morris magneto buzz box, then forgot to tighten the set screws on the lower ARD pulley wheel. still haven't done that. better not forget.

[Linked Image]

and there we are.

[Linked Image]

rocker boxes are just tightened on to seat the pushrod tubes. the frame is a 65, so the motor won't easily go in with the rocker boxes on. seems like i've done it that way before, but there's no reason to struggle with it.

the first sprocket and spacer should arrive tomorrow. i'll set it up, then put in the motor, and we'll have a roller again.



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #775981 06/09/19 3:21 pm
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This is a admin test post, no need to comment please. i'll remove it later.

Last edited by Morgan aka Admin; 06/09/19 3:27 pm.

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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776317 06/13/19 12:14 pm
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mostly together, coming down to the wire.

[Linked Image]

simple brake stay to a swingarm bracket and 6 feet of line will satisfy the rules requirement for a rear brake.

[Linked Image]

still have the tach down where i can see it it during a run. this isn't according to the rules, which say the instruments have to be on top of the upper triple clamp, so it will have to go eventually. but there's no way to use a tach unless you can see it. so i'll leave it there as long as i can.

[Linked Image]

and the teenagers are getting set up too, for 250 production

[Linked Image][Linked Image]


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776360 06/13/19 11:36 pm
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little things, little things. 20 percent of the fussing takes 80 percent of the time.

i wanted to lower the bike, and i sure did. what with 17-inch wheels, gavin's internal spacers, and an inch and a half of fork sticking up above the steering head, i have one-and-one-quarter inches of ground clearance under the pipes.

[Linked Image]

i originally wanted to make different pipes for this that tucked up closer to the bottom of the motor, but ran out of time. the rear end has 10.375-inch shocks, which lower the back 3-5/8s-inches. the springs are so stiff this machine is essentially a hardtail:

[Linked Image]

i thought about swapping softer springs from the longer shocks in, but i can't compress these beasts so i'm running with them.

anyway, the back is okay, and i can get most of 1-1/4-inches back in the front by slipping the fork tubes back into the triple tree:

[Linked Image]

so from here, we're done, except for the sprockets. rebel and i had some miscommunication, and they cut me a perfect spacer and sprocket, but made it out of 0.234 stock for a 520 chain, instead of 0.350 stock for a 530. but except for the width, it was perfect:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

so when that comes back, i'll break the motor in and finish the ninja.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776367 06/14/19 1:00 am
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Although there is no rule I know off in LSR about ground clearance so the pipes or frame doesn't ground out before the suspension bottoms out..But it is something to think about ???...I did allow for it on the double engine bike..


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #776402 06/14/19 11:04 am
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New rule at SCTA, I believe but don't have the new rulebook, is minimum of 20 degree lean angle. Your pipes might not lever you off the ground, but the frame or kickstand will. Luckily at Loring, you can make a 1/4 mile radius or so to get off the track!

Great to see the teens getting involved. I'm going to have to wait until my youngest grandson (now 8) gets a little older, as he seems to be really interested in mechanical things.

Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: koncretekid] #776409 06/14/19 12:32 pm
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Originally Posted by koncretekid
New rule at SCTA, I believe but don't have the new rulebook, is minimum of 20 degree lean angle. Your pipes might not lever you off the ground, but the frame or kickstand will. Luckily at Loring, you can make a 1/4 mile radius or so to get off the track!


Tom


If a bike comes down on the pipes when a tire suddenly deflates, Things get worse not better...I'm not saying Kevin should change a thing, just saying there's rules in car racing that no part of the chassis or suspension will ground out if a tire goes flat for good reasons


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776411 06/14/19 12:45 pm
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i dont have any leaning problems because the pipes are inboard. and i'll bring the longer shocks and original fork springs. i can raize the whole thing several more inches in an hour.

id rather have the rear brake line higher though. maybe i can get an angled fittin on tbe caliper.

Last edited by kevin roberts; 06/14/19 1:17 pm.

every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776412 06/14/19 12:53 pm
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Originally Posted by kevin roberts
i dont have any leaning problems because the pipes are inboard. and i'll bring the longer shocks and original fork springs. i can raize the whole thing severL more inches in an hour.

If you are ok with the low pipes I, then run it as is...I don't ride the bikes I build and worry some about the rider's safety


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776434 06/14/19 8:32 pm
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i don't worry very much about the rider's safety. if i was seriously worried about safety, i wouldn't be riding a motorcycle down a B-52 runway at 130 mph. i just try not to do really stupid stuff.

so i tapped the fork tubes back down in the clamps, and my ground clearance is up to about three inches. so i'm happy with that. if i need to, i can come up as many as four inches more, by taking the spacers back out of the forks.

there's only one bump in the runsway at loring anyway, on the return road, and i squashed both my nuts on the bikes aluminum seat so hard the first time i was there that i'll never forget where it is.

plus there are some 1-3/4-inch standard TT pipes coming in th email from lowbrow. they're the wrong length, and the wrong diameter, but if i have to i can put them on.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776438 06/14/19 9:04 pm
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Kevin, I predict, you will crowding 140 mph on that bike...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776440 06/14/19 9:36 pm
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maybe. that last 4 and half mph is going to be very difficult.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #776445 06/14/19 10:03 pm
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I used to road race a CB350 Honda with homemade pipes and megaphones that snaked out under the frame and exited outboard of the rear wheel. I ground off the bottoms of those megaphones without even knowing it. I just kept shortening them and finally went with TT style pipes that sort of heated the rear tire. I went on plenty of off-track excursions, but none that I could blame on the pipes hitting the pavement. Just saying that pipes can flex a bit, but the frame won't.

In any case, the rules don't specify ground clearance so we're on our own for now. The smart competitor tries out his bike in a parking lot, or at Loring, on the alternate runway before putting the hammer down on the race course.

Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776453 06/14/19 11:51 pm
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i think the TT pipes for triumphs are 38 inches by 1-1/2? can't remember. i'll have to measure. but i'm not convinced that the length of the pipe or the diameter are what's really happening.

my 1-5/8-inch by 32-inch long pipes have a nominal volume of 66.4 cubic inches, each.
a 1.5-inch by 38-inch pipe has a nominal volume of 67.2 cubic inches.

i suspect that a long skinny pipe will tune the same as a short fat one, all other things being equal. the speed of sound varies with density, and a fat pipe will have a less dense pulse moving more slowly than a skinny pipe. so the faster pulse in a long skinny pipe will return to the exhaust valve at the same moment as a slower pulse in a short fat pipe. ie they will tune to the same rpm.

more or less.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776483 06/15/19 11:20 am
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Kevin,
I'm sure you have already searched the net for info, but different sites give different advice. For example, both Wallaceracing: http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php and mezporting: http://www.mezporting.com/exhaust_length.html give conflicting info in spite of both claiming to use A. Graham Bell's calculations. The info on mezporting gives almost exactly the dimensions that I am using except for intake length whilst Wallace suggests longer exhaust and smaller pipe (tiny .81" diameter), so, you takes your best guess and go from there.


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776487 06/15/19 12:09 pm
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Years ago I ran a 67 650 Triumph with typical TT pipes for 5 years on the street..Contrary what often said about them, on my bike the engine has an excellent mid range and overall the bike was faster than other Triumphs I encountered..
If you look at the many photos of Harley LSR machines, they are the most common twin...They all run different types of pipes..Some are fat and short, some are two into one with short fat collectors and some with long pipes and even megaphones...
A famous car drag racer, Dick Landy, said if you want to win,run what your engine needs, not what others suggest...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #776543 06/15/19 11:49 pm
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well, the TT pipes arrived today, like 24 hours after i order them. the nice thing about lowbrow customs is that they're just a few counties away. original-style frame brackets coming from kyle at CBS, and i can get 1-3/4 inch P-clamps from british cycle supply in maine if i need them.

they might fit better than what i built, but they're 3/4-inch, so i don't have a clue how long they should be.

but after raising the front end of the LSR, i can now bottom the suspension and still have 1/2-inch of air under the pipes.

i'm happy with that.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: koncretekid] #776544 06/15/19 11:52 pm
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Originally Posted by koncretekid
Kevin,
I'm sure you have already searched the net for info, but different sites give different advice. For example, both Wallaceracing: http://www.wallaceracing.com/header_length.php and mezporting: http://www.mezporting.com/exhaust_length.html give conflicting info in spite of both claiming to use A. Graham Bell's calculations. The info on mezporting gives almost exactly the dimensions that I am using except for intake length whilst Wallace suggests longer exhaust and smaller pipe (tiny .81" diameter), so, you takes your best guess and go from there.



well, the fact that you're going a hundred and fifty on a stinking BSA single gives you some authority.

it's really annoying to watch you go so fast on that thing.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #777285 06/25/19 8:23 pm
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all done. i thought.

sprockets, chain adjusted, brake pads pressed in and re-positioned, timing set at 30 BTDC, valves at 008 and 010, carbs in, and so on. put fuel in the tanks, waited for the compressor to shut off so i could listen, and pressed the starter button.

spun fine, wouldn't catch. over and over.

fuel was good- accelerator pumps working, fuel in the float bowl, wet in the manifold. but it wouldn't start.

checked the spark, and all four plugs are popping fine.

checked the compression, 180 psi on both sides. but it wouldn't start.

rechecked all my notes on the cam timing, although with 180 psi, something should be happening even if it was wrong. but it wouldn't start.

has to be the stinking spark, i said, even though they were all firing. so i took off all the spark plug wires to look at them, made double-sure again that each terminal of the dual-fire magneto went to plugs on two different sides of the motor. didn't change anything, just looked at it and felt bad.

so i put the starter up on the crank again and pressed the button.

bang. started right up, works fine, needs idle adjustment, but that's it.

i swear i didn't move the spark plug wires from where they were before.

did i?


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
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