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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Mike Baker] #766614 02/27/19 2:05 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mike Baker
What class(s) are you planning to run the bike in?


dunno. classic sixties and sportsman want "clubman" trim, but i honestly don't know what that means. street-legal cafe? clip ons? fenders? rear sets? jatos?

will they bitch in classic 60s if the motor is a 1970?

Quote
This class intended for 1960s-era 650cc OHV . . . Unit-construction long-rod Triumph TR6/T120, up to 650cc, in Clubman trim


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #766641 02/27/19 4:59 pm
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If you put that fairing on for ARMHA, I don't think can run Classic '60's or Sportsman. Besides that, it won't make much difference in road racing. You'll find out in practice when some kid on a CB160 passes you in a corner! So put it on the Land Speed bike and get it over with! You should gain about 10% in speed and get to that magic 140mph.
Tom


Life's uncertain - go fast now!
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #766644 02/27/19 5:14 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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lol, i originally bought it for my commuter, but i want to use it on the roadracer around here as a trackbike, can't in roadrace competition.

on the LSR, though, i'm hooked on running naked. i know the bike could do much better with the fairing, but it wouldn't be as minimal. i'm looking for two things, really. not just 140, but also getting there in an impossible way.

right now the machine is really busy-- lots of roughness on the sides with me and the motor, fuel and oil tanks, pipes, carbs, whirling spokes. i think i can do a bit better by bringing all the roughness inboard and working on riding position. maybe better enough.



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #766661 02/27/19 7:12 pm
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Allan Gill Offline
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Originally Posted by kevin roberts
i did it already and have carefully forgotten the money

[Linked Image]

bought one of these from airtech. have the windshield and even a seat.

i'm saving them for the roadrace machine, but the frames for the two bikes are the same. once fabbed up i could switch between machines in an hour or two.


I’m very jealous Kevin. I asked Airtech for some a couple of years ago but don’t think he was keen on posting it to the UK. postage was dearer than the fairing itself.


beerchug
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #766671 02/27/19 8:29 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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the postage even here in america was horrifying, allan. it weighs nothing, just a giant box filled with styrofoam and the fairing.

but it was huge, because the fairing is all in one piece. my number one daughter stepped into the box, lay down in the ghost poo and disappeared, like she was underwater.

but it's the best-looking 60s britbike fairing of all, in my opinion, and there are a number of them available.

perhaps an unorthodox shipping method might be arranged? if you can find an importer who is bringing a shipping container to britain, you may be able to arrange a cheap spot inside the container, and then just pay american postage to the port of exit, and go pick it up yourself at the british port of entry. this isn't necessarily hard to do-- i've known various entrepeneurs who arrange for a shipping container to cross the waters with nothing more impressive inside than glass honey jars or latex gloves.

maybe you could call a british importer of less-than-load merchandise, and see if you can get one across the water on your own.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #766675 02/27/19 8:52 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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interestingly, i almost had a nasty with that box.

here in the american third world, i dispose of some of my garbage by localized incineration . . . in california i had to look out for the burn police, but here i can do anything i want, so long as i don't ask permission beforehand. anyway, i had this huge cardboard box filled with styrofoam ghost poo. i detest that stuff, because it floats around everywhere and never decomposes. so i resolved to burn it up before it could escape.

i took the full box out to the burn ring, and soaked the contents with a about a half-gallon of gasoline to burn it up. then i realized i didn't have a match, so i set the can down and went back to the house to get a light.



. . . . unbeknownst by me, the gasoline took my absence as an opportunity to seep all around the styrofoam, vaporize, and fill the huge cardboard box with a mixture of atmospheric oxygen and gasoline vapor . . .

innocently, i returned to the burn ring with my box of strike-anywhere matches, lit one up and threw it into the box.

the immediate detonation was very impressive. there was a thunderous explosion, and the air was filled with a blizzard of flaming particles of sticky styrofoam, all soaked in burning liquid and showering down all around me like an illuminated snowstorm.

after a few seconds, i looked around and saw that i was surrounded by a circle of burning napalm on the dry grass, which is a serious issue out here an hour away from a fire crew, so stomped it all out withpout further incident, and chalked up my experience to learning.

but after 60 years-plus, i would have hoped that all my life-threatening learning experiences would have been behind me.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #771924 04/24/19 10:06 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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taking the motor down to change out the rod bearings. so i don't forget, i photographed the cam pinions with the marks i'm using right now

intake centerine 106 ATDC

exhaust centerline 109 BTDC

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image][Linked Image]


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #771932 04/25/19 12:41 am
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Is that 106 degrees ,52 minutes? Are you that exacting? I'm impressed.....I could do mine looking for let's say 105 degrees...Maybe it was a little light or fat.. So I move my head from side to side until the angle makes the pointer line up with I want...." That good, nail it!"


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #771944 04/25/19 10:54 am
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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lol

not nearly that exact. but i can repeat a measuement to a half degree, usually, so thats what i record. then i measure it three times and average. i keep the decimals until the last step so the tolerances dont add up. the keyways are 4.8 degrees apart so itsthe math that gives the imaginary accuracy, not my measurements.

the wheels are too precise, really. i have a short stack of em ive got at swap meets that i wanted to use to fuss around the timing with, and theyre all exactly the same. on the intake i think i have four wheels that all give me the same 106.5.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #771945 04/25/19 11:24 am
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Do you check both cams lobes on each cam? I only did it on the Web cams in the double because I had one set they made incorrectly...I also noticed the NOS Sifton cam in the 650 bike has a very precise profile... The dial indicator needle on the Web cams does a bit of dancing as the cam starts to lift..This was also the case with a Johnson cam (they are now closed) I used in a street Triumph..It'll be interesting to see how the cam timing changes affect your engine...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #771950 04/25/19 12:56 pm
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ive never compared the lobes on the megacycle cams, but what i have looked at is pretty consistent. when you rotate around the base circle the cams are dead on. not just less than 0.001 runout, but zero runout- the needle doesnt move. no variation on the ramps either. mine are supposed to be 0.375 lift, but both cams are actually closer to 0.374.

the 106/109 timing is what i used last year. i'm keeping the motor there and just trying to get out of the wind right now.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772045 04/26/19 6:26 pm
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Those values are quite retarded Kev, a !ot I see for the A65 are between 103-105 intake or exhaust, some of the better cams have similar LCA for the inlet and exhaust ie 105-105


beerchug
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772067 04/26/19 10:56 pm
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i was immensely frustrated, allan. when i first put it together i ran with 101.5 / 104. i wanted to retard them just a bit to around 104/107, maybe. i tried different keyways, and measured the best-fit tooth, then one tooth CW and another CCW to see what i had available.

but on triumphs, the keyways give timing changes 4.8 degrees apart, the idea being that you can get within 2.4 degrees of anything you want. retarding one keyway and choosing the best-fit tooth engagement gave me the minimum change of around 4.8 degrees more for each wheel. so from 101.5 i went to 106.5, and from 104 to around 109. there was no combination of keyway or wheel that could retard less than 4.8 degrees from what i had.

on intakes, i could choose between:

83.1
87.7
92.6
97.2
101.5
106.4
111.3
116.2
120.9

i got lazy and didn't check all the keyway positions on the exhaust, but i could choose between:

86
90.9
...
...
104
109.4
...
118.8
123

106/109 was way more than i intended, but it ended up working well.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772071 04/26/19 11:15 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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you know, i use these threads for reference while i do this stuff. these are the cleaned-up marks i'm using for re-assembly that give me 106/109. i'm not taking the wheels off the cams, so this is good enough.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

if morgan closes this forum down i'm up [***] creek.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772102 04/27/19 11:29 am
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Kevin, I'm just always amazed at your attention to details and recording what is done...Must be the archeologist in you saving info for future generations..I write almost zero notes ....I write the cam degrees on the exterior of the timing cover where it's sure to be erased....

[Linked Image]

The first time you saw my 650 bike at Maine it ran 133,1 with the cam timing at 105/107....previously it ran 127+ with the cams set at 103/105....There were also other changes and at Maine the wind is always a factor...The guy who road races single cylinder Brit bikes got me to retard the cam...He then suggested to take the exhaust to 110...He says just keep retarding the timing until it goes slower....But changing cam timing at the track is a fussy job and to pull the roker boxes on my bike, the engine needs to be tilted to one side at the least..


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772113 04/27/19 4:08 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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even if it weren't fussy to change things, tbere's uzually no time. at ECTA in wilmington, everybody went right from the run to the end of tbe line on the access road, and any changes you made had to be done while you rolled the bike forward every ten minutez. you could go to tbe pits and work, but when you went back you had to wait an hour and a half sometimez to run what you had.

racing at loring is like zen meditation. i run three timez, then go look at my tickets to see if i'm doing better. then i puzh my bike 250 feet to the pits, change something, and i'm back at the starting line in minutes. . .

lazt time i was there, i tried four different pipe lengths, tbree jetting changez, and two or three ignition zettings. and got three tezt runs for each of them.

it's the opportu ity to tezt things that helps me, because i alwayz show up with no idea what the motor is going to want.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772123 04/27/19 9:14 pm
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My first trip to Wilmington the Triumph set a new class record right off the trailer...I tried several different jet sizes in AMAL's on the bike at that time but it went no faster...Two more trips to Wilmington ,bumped up the class record each time, didn't mess with the bike...Then the first trip to Maine and set a new class record, changed the jets once and went a touch faster...The second trip to Maine ,bumped the record again but no changes to the bike....Like a hit man, come to town, make the clip, leave town...Now you roll into town shooting up the place...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772196 04/28/19 10:36 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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you messed with me that last time.

your record was 128-something. i show up and work my ass off and finally get 128-something too.

then your machine runs, does 133, and goes home.

very annoying.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #772460 05/01/19 7:04 pm
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kevin roberts Offline OP
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lol

the first secret to the machinist is getting there before anything else shows up. i arrived 30 minutes before he opened and he came outside to see what the noise was

(it was tony's buell)

then i waved some hundred dollar bills at him, and that worked even better.

so the front wheel is at the aerospace guy's place, he has the material, and the front wheel should be done . . . this week.

the much-easier back wheel should be done . . . soon. all they need to do is spin metal off the japanese axle i gave them, and make up three spacers and a flat hanger for the caliper.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #773167 05/09/19 6:10 pm
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finally got the front forks back with the spacers for the suzuki wheel. the guy does beautiful work

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]

the wheel bearings are carried in the spacers, which attack to the wheel by bolting to the original; disc mounts.

hoping for the rear wheel next week, so i can order sprockets.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #773181 05/09/19 8:14 pm
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Looks nice Kev, although I’m assuming that part of those spacers pick up the original bearing recess? That way the bolts are only holding it together and not supporting the rotating mass


beerchug
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #773187 05/09/19 9:20 pm
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there's a raised rim around the recess that they center on, but i haven't taken them apart to look.

the bearing carrier in the middle of the original hub is supported by struts that connect it to the outer hub. the bolts go directly into those struts from the side, so the weight of the machine is transferred to the wheel rim through the original path, albeit with a jog through the 10 bolts.



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #773697 05/14/19 3:32 pm
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well, the 17-inch tires arrived. pretty radical.

[Linked Image]

compared to an avon 110/90/18 roadrunner, they're tiny.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

i'm planning on these little meats on both front and rear. they have a diameter of 22 inches, as opposed to the 26 inches of a standard 4.00/18. we'll see how they handle. they're 2.5-inch tires going on a more readily-available 3-inch rim. if they're too squirrely, goodyear makes a 4.00x17-inch tire that i can squeeze onto the same rim, i think. but i like the minimum contact patch, and since this bike is going to the salt flats eventually, i'm hoping the thinner cross section will give me more traction on the looser salt. it doesn't have to handle, or turn very well.

i asked the loring timing association tech guy if he was okay with this, because they don't have any date codes. he said, they'll be fine-- they'll wear out long before they're 10 years old.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #773796 05/15/19 2:08 pm
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Allan Gill Offline
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Those tyres will be ideal for the salt being so thin!


beerchug
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #773806 05/15/19 3:48 pm
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i hope so, allan.

tires are weird on the salt. on pavement people with real horsepower like wide tires because they don't spin as much under torque.

but the salt is different, because the surface is sometimes crumbly, and so large amounts of horsepower can overcome the available traction more easily. so some people claim that narrow tires will transfer more power to the ground than fatter ones, or maybe be faster for other reasons?

anyway, the people running british 650s all have these little 17-inch tires on the front, but generally a fatter tire on the back. andy cox ran a 4x17 front runner on the back this last year on his dominator (atlas?) at bonneville, and said that his rear was spinning. i'm trying to avoid that, so we're experimenting.

[Linked Image]



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
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