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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: kommando] #773802 05/15/19 2:53 pm
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by kommando


Long term Hydrogen looks the best option but it is years away.



I agree. Hydrolysis of sea water using nuclear energy splits out the hydrogen and releases oxygen. When the hydrogen burns, it recombines with oxygen to make water. No emissions, no energy used except (Gen IV) nuclear.

Storage and distribution is the big problem. We have 110 years worth of building up refineries, pipelines, storage tanks, rail cars, pumps, representing probably trillions of dollars of investment for petroleum. All of that would have to be replaced to get hydrogen into people's cars, whether it's done with compressed H or with fuel cells.

Huge job, long time, better get going on it if our grandchildren will ever see it .....

Lannis


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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773803 05/15/19 3:26 pm
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Quote
I won't even stop at a station that isn't "Pay at the Pump"


Lannis lad, best you bring them walking shoes with you in August, think THE FORTY INCHER is good for 165 miles, before your out of petrol completely, and them pay at the pump stations won't be around much in the Cotswolds lad, just sayin'... wink

Steam Cars, that's the future, I could burn all that shyte junk mail that keeps getting thrown through me door. Bloody Bills can go in there too for all I care, chop down a few trees and make the roads wider too... thumbsup



I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Kent Shaun] #773805 05/15/19 3:45 pm
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by Kent Shaun
Quote
I won't even stop at a station that isn't "Pay at the Pump"


Lannis lad, best you bring them walking shoes with you in August, think THE FORTY INCHER is good for 165 miles, before your out of petrol completely, and them pay at the pump stations won't be around much in the Cotswolds lad, just sayin'... wink




That falls under the "When In Rome, Do As The Romans Do" category ..... I can still remember taking you lot to an eating place, and everyone having heart attacks and conniptions fits when they found out the place didn't serve beer ....

Just got to go with the flow!

Lannis


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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773820 05/15/19 6:59 pm
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Dibnah
For most people in the UK, the future will not involve living in rural areas or owning a motor vehicle; ....


What, you mean the whole country will be one huge urban area? The UK has a surprising amount of open, rural land everywhere, with people living there.

Where I live, if a car doesn't have a range of 200 miles, it's of no use to me. All these "get ready, the future is here, better change your mind, etc" statements - been hearing them all my life, and I expect that my grandchildren will do the same.

"Earth Day" in 1970 was founded on the Scientific Fact that the world would run completely out of oil by 1995. And lo and behold, today in 2019 we have MORE known oil reserves than we had in 1970; matter of fact, actual scientists are now questioning whether our earthly oil supply was actually formed by compressing dinosaurs and swamps. It may be generating as we speak. Not to say that we should recklessly burn it up; my personal MPG usage is over 40 MPG, courtesy of 4 bikes averaging 50 MPG, my little Ford averaging 42 MPG, and Fay's Subaru averaging 31 MPG overall. That's better than most people and I'm going to keep it up ...

The distribution issues for hydrogen (3000 PSI storage tanks, pipelines, and pumps) and electricity (huge power lines raping the countryside) are huge for "fossil fuel" replacement ...

Lannis


No. I mean that most Brits won't live in rural areas. Currently, 80%+ of the UK population live in urban areas.

Tesla can currently sell you an electric car with a range of 300 miles plus.

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Dibnah] #773832 05/15/19 9:06 pm
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by Dibnah


No. I mean that most Brits won't live in rural areas. Currently, 80%+ of the UK population live in urban areas.

Tesla can currently sell you an electric car with a range of 300 miles plus.


You're right about the % of Brits living in "urban" areas. Been over 75% forever.

And I forgot to mention the part, along with less than 200 mile range not being of use to me, a price of over $80,000 isn't any use either! Maybe the price will come down where regular people could consider them someday ....

Lannis


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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773836 05/15/19 9:24 pm
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Dibnah


No. I mean that most Brits won't live in rural areas. Currently, 80%+ of the UK population live in urban areas.

Tesla can currently sell you an electric car with a range of 300 miles plus.


You're right about the % of Brits living in "urban" areas. Been over 75% forever.

And I forgot to mention the part, along with less than 200 mile range not being of use to me, a price of over $80,000 isn't any use either! Maybe the price will come down where regular people could consider them someday ....

Lannis



Yea for $80K+ you can get Tesla with 370 mile range

$30K gets you 226 miles in a Nissan



"Back in the garage with my [***] detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773859 05/16/19 1:29 am
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Yeah and when you have to top off the battery in the Tesla, it takes how long? VS pumping a few gallons in a minute or two & off again. Actually a friend has a Tesla and he LOVES it. I'd bought a brand new Chevy Volt if I could have had a few more bucks in me pockets... Wade let me ride a Zero electric Moto sickle once and it was a gas! (I make the joke). laugh

Seriously tho, I liked the electric bike. Fast as you want it to be. Smooth like butter.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773875 05/16/19 3:13 am
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When you trade in your old Chevy Volt for a new one, is that "revolting?"

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773899 05/16/19 9:26 am
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And we haven't even discussed driverless technology yet.....its an instant marriage with electric power IMO.
I think I will see it in my time [just], imagine you eat dinner, watch a bit of TV, have a shower, get into your PJ's, stroll out to the car, get in, punch in your destination and go to sleep. Next morning you are 800km away Dallas/Brisbane/Glasgow etc waking up and saying hello to your brother/sister/parents etc - I'd probably have to get the computer to pull over for a piss during the night though smile

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773921 05/16/19 4:23 pm
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Originally Posted by tridentt150v
- I'd probably have to get the computer to pull over for a piss during the night though smile


And hope that the computer remembers to pull over if the lines on the road disappear under a dusting of snow, or due to construction work and lane repaving, or on a detour onto a road that has no lines, and about 35,287 other real-world conditions that no one has figured out how to handle yet ..... !

Lannis


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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773922 05/16/19 4:50 pm
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by tridentt150v
- I'd probably have to get the computer to pull over for a piss during the night though smile


And hope that the computer remembers to pull over if the lines on the road disappear under a dusting of snow, or due to construction work and lane repaving, or on a detour onto a road that has no lines, and about 35,287 other real-world conditions that no one has figured out how to handle yet ..... !

Lannis



"You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”

1890's


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Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: rick e.] #773927 05/16/19 5:27 pm
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Originally Posted by rick e.
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by tridentt150v
- I'd probably have to get the computer to pull over for a piss during the night though smile


And hope that the computer remembers to pull over if the lines on the road disappear under a dusting of snow, or due to construction work and lane repaving, or on a detour onto a road that has no lines, and about 35,287 other real-world conditions that no one has figured out how to handle yet ..... !

Lannis



"You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”

1890's


Not a very good analogy. I never said it, and the circumstances are completely different. People have been predicting self-driving cars for 70 years now. Just because speculators are frothing at the mouth about the benefits (usually in order to pump a stock price) doesn't mean that it's real OR immanent.

My whole life, I've been hearing things like:

"Better get ready, change is coming, don't get run over by it."
"You don't have a GPS? What do you do, live in a cave and chip flints? No one can live without a GPS, get with it!"
"They said that man would never fly, too." (Who is "they"? Not me, that's for sure.)
"Electric cars are HERE, man, get used to it. Gas engines will be GONE in (5, 10, 20, 25, 30) years."

And it's always been complete [***]. People love to get excited about new things, and give [***] to people who ask questions, and who don't jump on the bandwagon with them and wave the flag like they do. I suppose it makes them feel better, or superior, or "hip", or out in front. That's OK, I suppose, because turns out I've been right 90% of the time, even though no one remembers once all the hype about cold fusion or Mars colonies or the decline of the dollar doesn't pan out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=dMTYT0w_1Q0

Time will tell. It always has.

Lannis


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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773941 05/16/19 8:03 pm
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Yeah you right. , change never happens ... except when it happens .
some things just wont fly ... like nuclear power
The cost of solar is now
lower than nuclear .




Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773943 05/16/19 8:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by rick e.
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by tridentt150v
- I'd probably have to get the computer to pull over for a piss during the night though smile


And hope that the computer remembers to pull over if the lines on the road disappear under a dusting of snow, or due to construction work and lane repaving, or on a detour onto a road that has no lines, and about 35,287 other real-world conditions that no one has figured out how to handle yet ..... !

Lannis



"You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”

1890's


Not a very good analogy. I never said it, and the circumstances are completely different. People have been predicting self-driving cars for 70 years now. Just because speculators are frothing at the mouth about the benefits (usually in order to pump a stock price) doesn't mean that it's real OR immanent.

My whole life, I've been hearing things like:

"Better get ready, change is coming, don't get run over by it."
"You don't have a GPS? What do you do, live in a cave and chip flints? No one can live without a GPS, get with it!"
"They said that man would never fly, too." (Who is "they"? Not me, that's for sure.)
"Electric cars are HERE, man, get used to it. Gas engines will be GONE in (5, 10, 20, 25, 30) years."

And it's always been complete [***]. People love to get excited about new things, and give [***] to people who ask questions, and who don't jump on the bandwagon with them and wave the flag like they do. I suppose it makes them feel better, or superior, or "hip", or out in front. That's OK, I suppose, because turns out I've been right 90% of the time, even though no one remembers once all the hype about cold fusion or Mars colonies or the decline of the dollar doesn't pan out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=dMTYT0w_1Q0

Time will tell. It always has.

Lannis



Parents posting a VID of a kid mocking stuff she does not understand = $upid

Posting a VID mocking clean energy with a house in the background with Solar Panels = Priceless


"Back in the garage with my [***] detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: rick e.] #773954 05/16/19 11:37 pm
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by rick e.



Parents posting a VID of a kid mocking stuff she does not understand = $upid

Posting a VID mocking clean energy with a house in the background with Solar Panels = Priceless



You missed the point completely. No one's mocking "solar energy". Just mocking the way it's being used and lied about.

The kid doesn't understand? Who cares? It's still funny, sort of like a border collie doing tricks. The dog doesn't have to understand.

And the only thing I can think of that's "Stupider" than posting a funny video is a guy who wastes his time WATCHING the "stupid" video, and then wastes MORE time COMMENTING on the "stupid" video .... I know, though. It's very difficult to resist!

Lannis




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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #773957 05/17/19 12:19 am
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Oh yeah, this little girls portrayal of AOC is spot on ! Love her videos.




Jon W.


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1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773959 05/17/19 1:04 am
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Lannis...I hear where you are coming from and to some extent you may well be right. But in this instance there are just too many big big companies throwing millions or $$$ and resources at it for it to go away. Sure, it might be overtaken by WWIII or another technology that we haven't yet considered, but the future is set on a course that will take us away from fossil fuel vehicles. And driverless technology has some very big bucks attached to it, the savings in transport costs [to the companies, not us] are just to much of a carrot on a stick for them not to chase it.

Its not my world, I live heartbeat Triumph twins and Triples and have a great car with a similar 'attitude', I've been called a petrolhead more than once smile. It is probably not anyone's world on these forums tbh, but we have to acknowledge that that is were it is trying to go.

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773979 05/17/19 7:39 am
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Anyone who believes that the future of individual transportation is a 2.5 ton vehicle , hauling a 700 kg battery for even the shortest trip , and going trough a set of tyres every 30000 km is dreaming . 1 million cars like that ? sure . 10 million ? may be . 100 million ? Never ! ..

Last edited by ludwig; 05/17/19 9:25 pm.
Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773988 05/17/19 10:59 am
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Lannis Offline
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Originally Posted by tridentt150v
Lannis...I hear where you are coming from and to some extent you may well be right. But in this instance there are just too many big big companies throwing millions or $$$ and resources at it for it to go away.


As long as they are throwing billions at it to solve engineering and economic problems, they'll get somewhere with it.

But in some cases, they are using government subsidy dollars to try to change the laws of physics, and to the degree that they are doing that, it's not going to "go" ...

Stay tuned!

Lannis


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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: tridentt150v] #773993 05/17/19 12:39 pm
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Lannis--remember the old saying:
"The only constant is change"

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Lannis] #774018 05/17/19 6:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by tridentt150v
Lannis...I hear where you are coming from and to some extent you may well be right. But in this instance there are just too many big big companies throwing millions or $$$ and resources at it for it to go away.


As long as they are throwing billions at it to solve engineering and economic problems, they'll get somewhere with it.

But in some cases, they are using government subsidy dollars to try to change the laws of physics, and to the degree that they are doing that, it's not going to "go" ...

Stay tuned!

Lannis


You will likely stay uninformed if you continue watching parodies of the news... and not the news of developing technologies
Its a personal choice.
An argument against public infrastructure
Is an argument for eroding the success of the United States ...( insert country of your choice here )
Infrastructure Investments get spread around .
Some are incredibly wasteful
Like nuclear ... government backed ...,private profits... with liability shifted to taxpayers... govt. guaranteed loans
Public liability ( taxed ) before , through and after decommissioning. .. the operation , disposal and storage
must all be guarded against leakage and Theft ... ( until your grandchildren's grandchildren as dead )
Cost , cost , cost . Today , tomorrow and the day after tomorrow .

Compare this scenario with a terrorist attacking anyone with a solar panel.
The future is clear to Mercedes-Benz anyway ... as long as people still want personal transportation...
Mercedes intends to provide a product , sustainable profits on a sustainable planet ... with a low carbon fuel

As a thought exercise ( a nuclear engineer did the numbers )
Using today's available,... solar technology
Covering 1% on the Sahara desert could power the ... total worlds daily power supply ...
.. at a cost equivalent of .. 1/10 as much as using nuclear power .
1% of the Sahara is a block 335 x 335 kilometers . ( 344 k . Is the distance of Paris to London )

The technology is here today ... Mercedes knows it ... and is moving forward
Your Fox parodies provide fantasy world commentaries from and for 8 year olds
Coal Miner's save America
And tobacco is good for you .
Meanwhile in the real world ,
A desert in Egypt
[Linked Image]

Or go Look out in the parking lot [Linked Image]






Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: quinten] #774019 05/17/19 6:14 pm
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When it's night time in the Sahara, how much power are the photocells producing?

Relying on energy from Africa is fraught with risk.

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: Dibnah] #774035 05/17/19 7:54 pm
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Originally Posted by Dibnah
When it's night time in the Sahara, how much power are the photocells producing?

Relying on energy from Africa is fraught with risk.

Yes , very much so .
That why this is a thought exercise .
Not a practically.
Its just an mental exercise ... to imagine the size of the basic solar infrastructure necessary .
If it were put in one place .
...and the possible cost benefits against other power sources.

The practical application is now already underway by a thousand different players .
Its to diversify gobal locations... based on a more complicated list of priorities .
Where is the power needed ... available sun/land ... not in my neighborhood ... all these things .

The Sahara was picked for its 12 hours of reliable sunlight.
How much power the world uses daily ... into how many square meters of solar power
could be provided by a great location ... it greatly simplifies the math .
And gives an actual footprint ... something to wrap your mind around.

The simple answer , with today's technology , favors solar over nuclear by 10 to 1...
With real production spread worldwide ... cost benefits could be as low as 2 to 1 over nuclear .
The point is ... the solar approach isnt pie in the sky ... its available sunlight ... available today .
As part of a doable solution .



.

Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: quinten] #774039 05/17/19 8:42 pm
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Originally Posted by quinten
Originally Posted by Dibnah
When it's night time in the Sahara, how much power are the photocells producing?

Relying on energy from Africa is fraught with risk.

Yes , very much so .
That why this is a thought exercise .
Not a practically.
Its just an mental exercise ... to imagine the size of the basic solar infrastructure necessary .
If it were put in one place .
...and the possible cost benefits against other power sources.

The practical application is now already underway by a thousand different players .
Its to diversify gobal locations... based on a more complicated list of priorities .
Where is the power needed ... available sun/land ... not in my neighborhood ... all these things .

The Sahara was picked for its 12 hours of reliable sunlight.
How much power the world uses daily ... into how many square meters of solar power
could be provided by a great location ... it greatly simplifies the math .
And gives an actual footprint ... something to wrap your mind around.

The simple answer , with today's technology , favors solar over nuclear by 10 to 1...
With real production spread worldwide ... cost benefits could be as low as 2 to 1 over nuclear .
The point is ... the solar approach isnt pie in the sky ... its available sunlight ... available today .
As part of a doable solution .



.


Why hate nuclear? Solar is a dirty business when you understand the manufacturing process and unless there has been some kind of paradigm shift, solar is more expensive price per kW than nuclear - last I checked it was no where near $0.05 / kW. Solar cannot exist without government subsidies - nuclear can if people who where ignorant of the technology would get out of the way. It shouldn't take 20 years to build a plant, and is the best option for clean energy we have. Fuel cell technology will never compete because the quantities of precious metal to manufacture the cells physically does not exist on the planet. And unless something really big happens with batteries, that is a dead end as well because of the rare earths required to make them.


'78 T140V
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Re: Mercedes announces end to fossil fuel production [Re: quinten] #774053 05/17/19 10:59 pm
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Originally Posted by quinten


You will likely stay uninformed if you continue watching parodies of the news... and not the news of developing technologies
Its a personal choice.

Your Fox parodies provide fantasy world commentaries from and for 8 year olds




As opposed to which news outlet(s) ? Please inform us of the most trusted news outlets, so that the so-called "uninformed" among us can become informed ? Stated as if everyone who watches Fox news takes Fox news or anybody else for that matter, at their word without also doing research and independent investigation of current and ongoing news, happenings and various subjects that are hot topics on the world stage. Sheesh smirk




Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

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