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Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #772611
05/04/19 1:03 am
05/04/19 1:03 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
Here in Pennsyltuckey, USA, we are getting more & more roundabouts- to traffic circles as they are less-than--affectionately known both here and in New Jersey... well it seems that traffic flows quicker then a roundabout, and who knew there are less accidents than in a regular intersection?


All that aside, Roundabouts in England, where they drive on the *ahem* OTHER side of the road, can be a bit of a challenge for those unused to local traffic patterns thereabouts (see what I did there?)..... In England the cars come at you from THE OTHER DIRECTION than that which we "yanks" are used to. Having ridden over there, I can say that it took me a few (very) close calls, and more than a few horn honks to figure out it's important to look the other way both coming & going in an English roundabout.

Regarding Pennsyltuckey roundabouts, resistance remains- but folks are getting used to them. wink


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

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Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Lannis] #772622
05/04/19 8:24 am
05/04/19 8:24 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,493
Crossville, TN
DavidP Offline

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DavidP  Offline

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Posts: 5,493
Crossville, TN
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by R Moulding

And all you ever have to do is give way to the right. How could anything be simpler?

Rod


Exactly! It's an indictment of the average driver's intelligence that they can't figure it out and don't like it ...

Lannis

Except at the two-lane circles in Nashville, and the aforementioned reluctance to use turn signals, one can never tell when the oncoming car is exiting the circle, or will attempt to exit the circle from the left lane.
As you pointed out, Lannis, we are an overly competitive lot here. Yielding right of way is tantamount to Socialism, and one can get credit for driving school by watching NASCAR on Sunday.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #772624
05/04/19 10:23 am
05/04/19 10:23 am
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 229
England
G
George Kaplan Offline
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 229
England
In the 90's SWMBO and I briefly considered moving to Indiana with SWMBO's job and I considered going to University in the USA so I had some interviews at various colleges. At one college the lady that showed me round (an American) said that she had lived in the UK for a few years and also mentioned that there was a "circle" (roundabout) in a nearby town and if I wanted some amusement I could go and watch Americans try and fail to navigate said roundabout.

I did and she was right, it was the source of great amusement to me.

John

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #772662
05/05/19 12:31 am
05/05/19 12:31 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,493
Crossville, TN
DavidP Offline

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Crossville, TN
New Jersey has a lot of traffic circles so that nobody can turn left in front of you, they just turn right in front of you. laughing


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: DavidP] #772769
05/06/19 12:33 am
05/06/19 12:33 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by DavidP
New Jersey has a lot of traffic circles so that nobody can turn left in front of you, they just turn right in front of you. laughing


New Jersey drivers popularized the now ubiquitous "Jersey Slide" maneuver, where one driving in the farthest lane from the exit ramp cuts directly across all of however many lanes there are to make the exit at the last second, cutting off whomever happens to be in each lane, as they go.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: R Moulding] #772770
05/06/19 12:36 am
05/06/19 12:36 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by DavidP
New Jersey has a lot of traffic circles so that nobody can turn left in front of you, they just turn right in front of you. laughing


New Jersey drivers popularized the now ubiquitous "Jersey Slide" maneuver, where one driving in the farthest lane from the exit ramp cuts directly across all of however many lanes there are to make the exit at the last second, cutting off whomever happens to be in each lane, as they go.

Originally Posted by R Moulding

And all you ever have to do is give way to the right. How could anything be simpler?

Rod


LOL. Indeed. FIRST, however, as Bryan mentioned, one must be aware that traffic IS indeed coming from the right.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #772774
05/06/19 1:15 am
05/06/19 1:15 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,378
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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Tridentman  Online Content

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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,378
New Jersey USA
Yes--we have some circles in Jooooisey--but less than there used to be.
I don't think New Joooisey people have ever come to terms with circles.
In NJ circles are things you get around your eyes after a good night out!

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: ricochetrider] #772801
05/06/19 6:50 am
05/06/19 6:50 am
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 668
UK
D
Dibnah Offline
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Dibnah  Offline
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D

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 668
UK
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
Originally Posted by DavidP
New Jersey has a lot of traffic circles so that nobody can turn left in front of you, they just turn right in front of you. laughing


New Jersey drivers popularized the now ubiquitous "Jersey Slide" maneuver, where one driving in the farthest lane from the exit ramp cuts directly across all of however many lanes there are to make the exit at the last second, cutting off whomever happens to be in each lane, as they go.


Bonus points if the sliding driver changes his mind at the last moment and then rejoins the main carriageway.

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Dibnah] #772957
05/07/19 10:12 pm
05/07/19 10:12 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by Dibnah
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
Originally Posted by DavidP
New Jersey has a lot of traffic circles so that nobody can turn left in front of you, they just turn right in front of you. laughing


New Jersey drivers popularized the now ubiquitous "Jersey Slide" maneuver, where one driving in the farthest lane from the exit ramp cuts directly across all of however many lanes there are to make the exit at the last second, cutting off whomever happens to be in each lane, as they go.


Bonus points if the sliding driver changes his mind at the last moment and then rejoins the main carriageway.


laughing
Right?

Ah! You have driven in New Jersey, I take it? laugh


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: ricochetrider] #773012
05/08/19 11:06 am
05/08/19 11:06 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,568
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Online content

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Al Eckstadt  Online Content

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,568
Jordan, NY
AAh! The joys of driving in New Jersey! They also have Jug Handles - instead of left turn lanes you loop around to cross the road at a traffic light. These have been cleverly designed to have lessening radius curves so drivers tires squeal and they jam on their brakes.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #773014
05/08/19 11:50 am
05/08/19 11:50 am
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 668
UK
D
Dibnah Offline
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Dibnah  Offline
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D

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 668
UK
More of Swindon's Magic Roundabout https://www.airvuz.com/video/The-Ma...rone-Footage?id=58ff9b0f3ecc29145fe2bc8e (music might not be to everyone's taste!)

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Dibnah] #773017
05/08/19 1:29 pm
05/08/19 1:29 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,180
Derbyshire UK
BeezaBryan Offline

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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,180
Derbyshire UK
Originally Posted by Dibnah
More of Swindon's Magic Roundabout https://www.airvuz.com/video/The-Ma...rone-Footage?id=58ff9b0f3ecc29145fe2bc8e (music might not be to everyone's taste!)


Magic beerchug


Blessed are the curious for they shall have adventures

"He knows not where he's going,
For the ocean will decide,
Its not the destination,
It's the glory of the ride”
(Edward Monkton, Zen Dog)

Bryan



Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Dibnah] #773020
05/08/19 2:20 pm
05/08/19 2:20 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,776
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Offline

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,776
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Dibnah
More of Swindon's Magic Roundabout https://www.airvuz.com/video/The-Ma...rone-Footage?id=58ff9b0f3ecc29145fe2bc8e (music might not be to everyone's taste!)


I like roundabouts for traffic movement - they're FAR more efficient than traffic lights or four-way stops.

But I'm afraid I'd have to have some practice navigating this one ... how would I ever remember whether I'm the one ALREADY in the roundabout and people have to yield to me, or whether I'm ENTERING a part of the roundabout and have to yield to traffic already there?

Lannis


Orwell's "1984" was not meant to be an instruction manual.
Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Lannis] #773021
05/08/19 2:29 pm
05/08/19 2:29 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,180
Derbyshire UK
BeezaBryan Offline

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BeezaBryan  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,180
Derbyshire UK
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by Dibnah
More of Swindon's Magic Roundabout https://www.airvuz.com/video/The-Ma...rone-Footage?id=58ff9b0f3ecc29145fe2bc8e (music might not be to everyone's taste!)


I like roundabouts for traffic movement - they're FAR more efficient than traffic lights or four-way stops.

But I'm afraid I'd have to have some practice navigating this one ... how would I ever remember whether I'm the one ALREADY in the roundabout and people have to yield to me, or whether I'm ENTERING a part of the roundabout and have to yield to traffic already there?

Lannis


With your UK experience Lannis I doubt you'd have much trouble finding your way through


Blessed are the curious for they shall have adventures

"He knows not where he's going,
For the ocean will decide,
Its not the destination,
It's the glory of the ride”
(Edward Monkton, Zen Dog)

Bryan



Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: BeezaBryan] #773026
05/08/19 3:53 pm
05/08/19 3:53 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,960
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online content
BritBike Forum member
quinten  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Q

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,960
Pacific northwest
The whole idea of roundabouts is cool .
A minimal amount of physical engineering , in just enough space ...sets a flow and speed pattern
Then the Traffic flow is the drivers responsibility
All without the expense and maintenance of traffic signals .( they ain't cheap )
.
As a western American... i dont have much experience with them .
I grew up with Californias Cloverleaf freeways , where there was plenty of cheap farmland to expropriate
And lay out elegantly curved roads before the sprawl was in filled .
It all worked for a while .
It works so well
"everyone" wanted to move there .


Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: BeezaBryan] #773027
05/08/19 4:08 pm
05/08/19 4:08 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,776
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Offline

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,776
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by BeezaBryan


With your UK experience Lannis I doubt you'd have much trouble finding your way through



I have to keep chanting "yield to the RIGHT, yield to the RIGHT" whenever I'm over there, but yes, a regular roundabout is pretty easy to do, mainly because there's normally just one decision - "Yield to the RIGHT and enter the roundabout and then you don't have to yield any more" ....

but with these roundabouts within a roundabout, it give you one more level to think about. You got to be on your toes! and most drivers aren't ...

Lannis


Orwell's "1984" was not meant to be an instruction manual.
Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #773043
05/08/19 6:30 pm
05/08/19 6:30 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,234
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Online content
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R Moulding  Online Content
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Posts: 2,234
Christchurch NZ

Lannis, if you are pulling up to a broken white line then you are not the driver already on that particular roundabout and must give way, in this case to the right.

Rod


So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #773057
05/08/19 8:17 pm
05/08/19 8:17 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,218
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,218
Boston, Massachusetts
Only in Massachusetts! When I got my driver's license in 1955 we were taught that the person coming into the rotary had the right-of-way. This lasted until the 1990's when they decided that the person on the rotary had the right-of-way. This led, and in some cases continues today, where rotaries are totally unorganized mayhem. It's is youth against the seniors. This is the state where giving the right-of-way is a challenge to your manhood. We also adopted the right-on-red rule. This quickly morphed into the left-on-red ,and today when I go the 30 miles to Boston on the back roads into the way we think the rule should be. That of course is straight-on-red done properly at speed. It is not uncommon to run out of fingers keeping track of how many you see.


Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #773140
05/09/19 1:52 pm
05/09/19 1:52 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
Pennsyltuckey is installing roundabouts in spots, we're getting. more & more of them in the past few years. There's a particularly large on atop a local mountain- in a place where traffic backed up terribly at rush hours, as 4 roads come together with loads of cars and people coming & going bad workday. With the new roundabout, traffic moves much faster and doesn't stack up like it used to- AND there are fewer accidents there, too! Seems like the local hillbillies, hicks, & bumpkins are catching on to the concept!


Just for entertainment purposes- and in the vein of "things could always be worse", here's an instructional video on how to cross a roadway in Vietnam....







"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Dibnah] #773142
05/09/19 2:03 pm
05/09/19 2:03 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,818
Pennsyltuckey
Originally Posted by Dibnah
More of Swindon's Magic Roundabout https://www.airvuz.com/video/The-Ma...rone-Footage?id=58ff9b0f3ecc29145fe2bc8e (music might not be to everyone's taste!)


What I like about driving in England (& the UK) is that everything is designed to KEEP VEHICLES MOVING. This is, admittedly, a really odd concept. Completely anathema to any & all concepts of driving in the USA, where every city, town, & village, regardless of size, has a traffic light or intersection with a 4 way stop sign at every block, and the lights (or signals if you prefer) are all timed in such a way that no two are green at any single moment.

and yes, John, we, too, have

right turn on a red light if there's not a "NO TURN ON RED" sign in the intersection

left turn on a red light from one-way street onto another one-way street

straight through a red light if you sit there and sit there and sit there and the light never turns green, it is assumed the light is "not functioning properly". If it is safe to do so, most or many places have a law or sub-law allowing one to cross thru the intersection.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: ricochetrider] #773161
05/09/19 5:15 pm
05/09/19 5:15 pm
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 668
UK
D
Dibnah Offline
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Dibnah  Offline
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D

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 668
UK
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
Originally Posted by Dibnah
More of Swindon's Magic Roundabout https://www.airvuz.com/video/The-Ma...rone-Footage?id=58ff9b0f3ecc29145fe2bc8e (music might not be to everyone's taste!)


What I like about driving in England (& the UK) is that everything is designed to KEEP VEHICLES MOVING. This is, admittedly, a really odd concept. Completely anathema to any & all concepts of driving in the USA, where every city, town, & village, regardless of size, has a traffic light or intersection with a 4 way stop sign at every block, and the lights (or signals if you prefer) are all timed in such a way that no two are green at any single moment.

and yes, John, we, too, have

right turn on a red light if there's not a "NO TURN ON RED" sign in the intersection

left turn on a red light from one-way street onto another one-way street

straight through a red light if you sit there and sit there and sit there and the light never turns green, it is assumed the light is "not functioning properly". If it is safe to do so, most or many places have a law or sub-law allowing one to cross thru the intersection.


Not in London it's not! Average traffic speeds have dropped over the last few decades, various causes, including phasing traffic lights to inconvenience motorists. The public transport system is generally rammed to the hilt, and even motorcycling is becoming more difficult ... or is that advance of years? If it has to be public transport in London then fast clipper is my preferred option https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f69nIB0N9I4 The short film is spoilt by the music (as many are), what's so wrong with twin marine diesels (V10?) and whistling turbochargers?

Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: Dibnah] #773193
05/09/19 11:26 pm
05/09/19 11:26 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,960
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online content
BritBike Forum member
quinten  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Q

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,960
Pacific northwest
Quote
Not in London it's not! Average traffic speeds have dropped over the last few decades


London's population declined from 1939 to 1991... 8.6 mil to 6.4 ... over this 50 year span
But from 1991 to 2016 ...
londons population has been growing ... 6.4mil to 8.8 ... over a 30 year span .

a Londoner who stayed local , born around 1950
Would have lived through a lot of change .
First less people and more cars and motorcycles ... as the population decentralized and became more prosperous .
And then since 1991
A continuing increase in population .. with much more personal motor vehicle transportation options
Than the average Londoner ever dreamed of in 1939 ...

Squeezing more people with personal transportation... into the same space ... will no doubt have impacts ,

A roundabouts capacity should not be critiqued on its own if there are restrictions , like traffic lights , on its entries and exits .

Ive taken to riding a bicycle or my E-bike ... when traffic gets jammed .
Even my small town gets slammed by the summertime tourist traffic .




Re: Seven roundabouts! [Re: rick e.] #773202
05/10/19 1:15 am
05/10/19 1:15 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,521
South cone
R
reverb Online content
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R

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,521
South cone
...I watched part of the clip and I am here wondering how not there are more crashes there...total anarchy.

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