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Found it #772428
05/01/19 8:01 am
05/01/19 8:01 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Kent Shaun Online content OP
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Kent Shaun  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Got a few days off from Hell Hole Duties this week, although that didn't stop a 19hr day there yesterday, thanks to yet another holiday in France.... facepalm

Anyways, thought I'd get to the bottom of this Injun and it's electrical fun. As y'all recall, I'd found the short t'other day, a dodgy wire at the Amp meter. It was letting the smoke out and blowing fuses, then it was finding out why the rear light don't work. Seems the tyre was cutting the wire that's under the mudguard, bloody strange as the previous owner said this was a daily ride before he got ill and had to sell it...?

Well a good looking, showed up the tyre size was WRONG, seems it was supposed to be a 4.00-18 but was in fact a 4.50-18.. I assume the '50' means it's a tad wider, anyways a new tyre should be at me door today... thumbsup

In the meantime, I found the nice shiny looking spokes are bloody stainless, and three count em, THREE of the buggers are broken... shocked

So the wheel will be re-built with galvanised mild steel jobbies, bloody hate stainless spokes, we have to ride on the surface of the Moon around these parts, and them shiny things just aren't man enough. Also found the brake shoes need a re-line, so a little wiring job has grown into even more $$$$. But isn't that always the way... cry

Not too worry, there's a Rally afoot stay tuned for news on that coming soon....


I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
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Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772439
05/01/19 1:34 pm
05/01/19 1:34 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,806
Santa Barbara, California
KC in S.B. Offline

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KC in S.B.  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,806
Santa Barbara, California
So,....... Tell me what the issue is with SS spokes? Not strong enough?


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
1 '65 XLCH on the way to Japan!
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772444
05/01/19 2:30 pm
05/01/19 2:30 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,232
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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John Healy  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,232
Boston, Massachusetts
Whoa Big Boy! Buchanan stainless spokes have almost become the standard for wheel building here in the US. Whether it be a Nitro-burning Harley dragster to a heavily loaded several hundred thousand mile touring bike. If properly tensioned they are almost never a problem. Spokes, galvanized steel or stainless, break from being loose resulting in the heads work hardening. It isn't the spoke that is a problem, but the person who built the wheel or the person maintaining the bike.

If you are having problems with stainless spokes I would find another spoke supplier and/or wheel builder.

Just saying!


Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772454
05/01/19 4:30 pm
05/01/19 4:30 pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 794
Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
B
bill50cal Online content
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bill50cal  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 794
Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
dang it shaun. it sounds like your having an injun uprising over there. you better nip this in the bud before it gets out of control. see what happens when you take one off the reservation so get bizzy retraining him.


windy
72 combat
switchbackcreek.com
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772458
05/01/19 6:57 pm
05/01/19 6:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,072
gastonia .. NC
L
limeyrider Offline
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limeyrider  Offline
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L

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,072
gastonia .. NC
Hey Shaun lad, always the same with the old iron .... Apache here, Apache there, keeps everything Cherrykee !

Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772462
05/01/19 7:38 pm
05/01/19 7:38 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Kent Shaun Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
Kent Shaun  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Had two lots of Stainless spokes over the time I've been riding, my M33 outfit broke about 40 in the rear wheel, and the A10 broke about 8. Far too brittle, bugger all to do with maintenance, cos they were both checked before they broke. AND the wheel builder told me today that Stainless isn't what he'd recommend on a bike that's used for purpose... wink

Ifn YOU love Stainless, and you've had no trouble, then carry on dudes, just sayin' is all... beerchug


I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772471
05/01/19 11:26 pm
05/01/19 11:26 pm
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,072
gastonia .. NC
L
limeyrider Offline
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limeyrider  Offline
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L

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,072
gastonia .. NC
Surely the type of stainless steel used to make the spokes, and the amount of " working " has a bearing on the strength / brittleness of the steel ...316 / 316L / 304 / 304L there are some differences within that family of steels. Work hardening of the spoke head and threads can occur causing some weaknesses.
Buchanan has the quality .... others may not .

Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772474
05/02/19 12:38 am
05/02/19 12:38 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 178
Oceania
N
NickL Offline
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NickL  Offline
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N

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 178
Oceania
I used ss spokes for a long time in my racing sidecar outfit's 16in front wheel. That had a vincent spool hub so full length spokes,
the front wheels on outfits turn figure 8's when ridden hard around right handers'. I did break a few 8's and went to 6's
on the last build which is when i used a 17inch rim. A lot of wheel builders say to go up a gauge with stainless as it
is more brittle. I never broke a 6. BUT they were a bugger to lace............... just my 2c

Last edited by NickL; 05/02/19 12:39 am.
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772478
05/02/19 1:35 am
05/02/19 1:35 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,380
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Tridentman  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,380
New Jersey USA
I know from personal experience that Buchanans recommend for a conical rear hub that the standard 10 gage is replaced by 9 gage if using stainless spokes.
So I guess the inference from is that stainless spokes are not so strong in some aspect than zinc plated mild steel spokes.
Now whether that "aspect" is tensile strength, fatigue strength, work hardening etc etc --I don't know.

Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772489
05/02/19 3:47 am
05/02/19 3:47 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,806
Santa Barbara, California
KC in S.B. Offline

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KC in S.B.  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,806
Santa Barbara, California
Hah! Interesting Hyjack, to say the least, Anyhow, good you found your sparky problem !


Down to 1 BSA, 2 Triumphs, 1 '56 Chevy
1 '65 XLCH on the way to Japan!
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772497
05/02/19 7:22 am
05/02/19 7:22 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Kent Shaun Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
Kent Shaun  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Thanks KC in SB lad, strange I've set em all off with this spoke lark.. crazy

I've never gone into the microscopic make up of steels, I usually take a wheel to the local builder, and ask his opinion. Or just think, sod this, I'll try something else cos these buggers keep snapping. And sure as eggs is eggs, you can bet your sweet bippy, it'll happen when I'm out in the Boonies and it's pouring with rain, so best I just get it sorted with what I KNOW works...Well that's my way of thinking anyways... wink

Meantime, back in the fettling shed, I have the new tyre, a new inner tube, and some of that stuff that's SUPPOSED to stop punctures. Its a proper bugger getting that back wheel in, and I don't fancy doing it out on the road. I also need new rear and front Sprockets, dead easy to get from Ameriky, but the Bar Stewards down at the post office will want £30 import duty before they'd deliver... mad

Never had this in the past, and I think it's retaliation for whatever Mr T is doing over there, but we won't go into Polly Ticks will we... wink

So I've found a place in Germany for them, thing is the lad is a tad slow at replying to Emails, so I'm playing the old Waiting Game... ohno

Well that's me lot lads, there's a Rally afoot, a bike needs to be chosen, prepped and loaded, camera battery needs charging, lens needs ANOTHER wipe. Me boots need something to hold back the rain, cos you just KNOW it'll rain, we're camping aren't we..! Oh, and I need me passport cos it's overseas. Blimey best I get a wiggle on, see ya, carry on talking about analysing the co-efficiency of Shell or Texaco oils, I'm riding, drinking beer and singing songs.... beerchug


I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772504
05/02/19 1:04 pm
05/02/19 1:04 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,781
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Offline

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,781
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Kent Shaun
Thanks KC in SB lad, strange I've set em all off with this spoke lark.. crazy

I've never gone into the microscopic make up of steels, I usually take a wheel to the local builder, and ask his opinion. Or just think, sod this, I'll try something else cos these buggers keep snapping. And sure as eggs is eggs, you can bet your sweet bippy, it'll happen when I'm out in the Boonies and it's pouring with rain, so best I just get it sorted with what I KNOW works...Well that's my way of thinking anyways... wink

Meantime, back in the fettling shed, I have the new tyre, a new inner tube, and some of that stuff that's SUPPOSED to stop punctures. Its a proper bugger getting that back wheel in, and I don't fancy doing it out on the road. I also need new rear and front Sprockets, dead easy to get from Ameriky, but the Bar Stewards down at the post office will want £30 import duty before they'd deliver... mad

Never had this in the past, and I think it's retaliation for whatever Mr T is doing over there, but we won't go into Polly Ticks will we... wink

So I've found a place in Germany for them, thing is the lad is a tad slow at replying to Emails, so I'm playing the old Waiting Game... ohno

Well that's me lot lads, there's a Rally afoot, a bike needs to be chosen, prepped and loaded, camera battery needs charging, lens needs ANOTHER wipe. Me boots need something to hold back the rain, cos you just KNOW it'll rain, we're camping aren't we..! Oh, and I need me passport cos it's overseas. Blimey best I get a wiggle on, see ya, carry on talking about analysing the co-efficiency of Shell or Texaco oils, I'm riding, drinking beer and singing songs.... beerchug


Always a rush, no matter how early you start, getting the old bikes ready for a rally, something always comes up. ohno

Sorry to hear that it's such a hassle getting the back wheel in and out of Crazy Horse there, on my old rigid Harley it was the easiest job in motorcycling with those lug nuts and a hinged rear fender. Some Ride-On in the tube like you're doing is a good idea I think. It'll soon have all the bugs exterminated and just cruise cruise cruise. thumbsup

I was prying the fork seals out of the lower slides on the Norton front end yesterday and stabbed a screwdriver about an inch into my hand OUCH so my left hand is getting a rest today and back to fettling when I can use it again ... and I'm sure the £30 "import duty" is Mr. T's fault too .... everything from the Spanish American War to people's hemorrhoids to having trouble taking a whiz is Mr. T's fault according to the papers here. Personally I think your GPO is prepping for Brexit and upping the customs duty to get ready for it! frown

So get over to John Bull or whatever rally awaits while you can ..... ! beerchug

Lannis


Orwell's "1984" was not meant to be an instruction manual.
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772506
05/02/19 1:39 pm
05/02/19 1:39 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,232
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
BritBike Forum member
John Healy  Offline
BritBike Forum member
J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,232
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
I know from personal experience that Buchanans recommend for a conical rear hub that the standard 10 gage is replaced by 9 gage if using stainless spokes.


Triumph did the same for the early T140. The 10 gauge galvanized steel rear spokes kept breaking until they went to 9 gauge. It wasn't the steel, but the engineering.


Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772515
05/02/19 3:38 pm
05/02/19 3:38 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 771
Ewing. NJ
E
edunham Offline
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edunham  Offline
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E

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 771
Ewing. NJ
Shaun,
Some time ago I saw someone change a rear tire on an Indian with full fenders like yours. His bike had a center stand as well as a side stand (don't know if they are all like that). He put the bike on the center stand, flipped out the side stand, and tilted the bike over so it was resting on the left leg of the center stand and the side stand. With the bike tilted like that, he was able to slide the wheel out at an angle to the right. Don't know if that would work for your bike or not, but I was sufficiently impressed that I now use the same method with my Velo. Saves having to lift the whole plot enough to pull the wheel out otherwise.

Ed from NJ

Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772516
05/02/19 3:44 pm
05/02/19 3:44 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,380
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Tridentman  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,380
New Jersey USA
John--many thanks for correcting my false knowledge.
One of the advantages of these forums I guess!

Re: Found it [Re: edunham] #772528
05/02/19 4:58 pm
05/02/19 4:58 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
Kent Shaun Online content OP
BritBike Forum member
Kent Shaun  Online Content OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,313
Kent Garden of England
edunham lad, that is the EXACT way it tells you to do the job in the book, the fun part is trying to line up the Speedo drive, hold the spacer, and the wheel, then place the spindle in all on your own... facepalm

YES it can be done, and it's not an easy task, so I'm doing me best to prevent all that marlarky. Did you know the way to get the bike on the centre stand isn't how you think, you put it on the side stand, drop the centre stand, then pull the bike over on the side stand. Lean over it, and pull the centre stand into place, it's a great idea. Don't have to pull your plumbs out, like I've done on SOME BSA's... thumbsup

More news... The rear sprocket has been ordered from Germany, it's a 36 tooth jobbie, he don't have the correct 40 tooth. So I'll be going even faster on it now... grin

Lannis lad, OUCH..! Get that hand sorted lad, hope it's not your Beer holding hand..? YES you're right, off to the John Bull. The Black Knight is loaded and so am I, Injun Tomfoolery will have a rest, it's BSA riding time... thumbsup


I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
Re: Found it [Re: Kent Shaun] #772544
05/02/19 9:05 pm
05/02/19 9:05 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 771
Ewing. NJ
E
edunham Offline
BritBike Forum member
edunham  Offline
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E

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 771
Ewing. NJ
On the Velo, the distance between the swingarm ends is a smidge tight. I slide the rear wheel into place without the distance piece or the speedo drive. I then run a punch through the swingarm and hub to generally hold it in place. I then put a board or a brick under the wheel to more or less hold the hole in in the hub parallel with the axle space in the swingarm. I remove the punch and put the spacer in place with stiff grease on the end to hold it. I then use a large screwdriver across the hub to pry the swingarm out a smidge so I can get the speedo drive seated. Once that happens, I let loose of the screwdriver and the tightness between the swingarm ends pretty much holds everything in place. I take my long punch and put it in the axle hole and wiggle it around a bit to make sure everything is lined up (sounds dirty). Grease up the axle and put it in. Sometimes it needs to be turned and sometimes it needs a thump with a soft hammer. Takes less time than it took to write this.

Ed from NJ


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