BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
The Bonneville Shop BritBike Sponsor
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum
| Spiders Cartoons, | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
injunmort
injunmort
sugarloaf ny
Posts: 226
Joined: March 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Buy BritBike staff a coffee
Buy BritBike's staff a coffeeStill here since 1996 serving BritBikers, just sayin..
ShoutChat Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Newest Members
Greg Alexander, BBQ, Rick K, Fraz, Dave Tomz
10647 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
koan58 102
reverb 71
L.A.B. 56
Popular Topics(Views)
854,550 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums35
Topics68,062
Posts673,855
Members10,647
Most Online5,714
Apr 16th, 2019
Who's Online Now
72 registered members (Alan_nc), 412 guests, and 276 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
'74 t150 motor "tight" #770482
04/08/19 12:50 pm
04/08/19 12:50 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
finally got back to work on the 150, new motor, and amoung other problems it feels tight. Before I buttoned it up I could turn the crank with a wrench and it felt normal. but after fitting the priamry, somethings not right. I can kick the motor thru with my foot, but even with the plugs out I can not work the kickstart lever by hand nor can I spin the motor by putting it in 4th gear and spinning the wheel.

I think the problem has to be between the chain wheel and the trans but this is only the second triple I've worked on so I need you to guide me.

Part 2. The bike came with a new Sparx EI aready installed so i decided to try it. But I have no faith that it will work. other than points and Trispark, what do you recommend for ingnition?

thanks


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770526
04/08/19 9:53 pm
04/08/19 9:53 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 57
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
R
Robin Giesbrecht Offline
BritBike Forum member
Robin Giesbrecht  Offline
BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 57
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Did you replace the high gear bearing and/or the hi gear itself? There are two different widths of bearing out there and interchanging the bearing or hi gear will cause the bearing to lock up once you tighten down the sprocket. Been there, done that. Maybe primary chain alignment might also be an issue. Take a look at the primary chain through the inspection hole and make sure it has some slack. If it is tight something is wrong.

I am impressed with the VAPE ignition sold through Wassel. Priced right, nice build quality and works great.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770527
04/08/19 10:28 pm
04/08/19 10:28 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
The gears were in a box when i got it, but its somethign to check

Thanks


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770554
04/09/19 4:49 am
04/09/19 4:49 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,421
Crossville, TN
DavidP Online content

BritBike Forum member
DavidP  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,421
Crossville, TN
My A65 came to me with the Sparx iginition. Works fine until the tiny nuts used to attach the trigger wires loosen. You might want to solder the screws to the pickup plate and dab some paint on the nuts once tight.
I've never used any EI on a Trident but the Lucas Rita and my current Tri Spark. The Rita was excellent. I've only had the TS for a short time. In any case, the points will drive you nuts trying to keep all three adjusted.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770621
04/09/19 8:37 pm
04/09/19 8:37 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,804
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,804
New Jersey USA
A newly rebuilt T150 will not spin all that readily.
Simple things first---does it kick over easily with the clutch lever pulled in?
You should be able to turn the engine over using the rear wheel in top gear with the plugs out.
If you cant do that and the gear box turns OK as explained above then I think that you have got to get into the primary.

On a T150 I have used points, Lucas Rita, Boyer Mk III and Boyer Mk IV.
The Boyer Mk IIIs are sensitive to low voltage so best avoided.
The Pazon is similar to the Boyer so that should be OK.
No personal knowledge of Sparx or VAPE/Wassell.
Mixed experience with Boyer on a T160 so am in the process of fitting a Trispark to one of my T160s.
HTH

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770664
04/10/19 1:36 pm
04/10/19 1:36 pm
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,777
Mississauga, Ontario.
A
Adam M. Offline
BritBike Forum member
Adam M.  Offline
BritBike Forum member
A

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,777
Mississauga, Ontario.
Excellent experience with Trispark, for the last 3 years.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770713
04/11/19 2:00 am
04/11/19 2:00 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 776
Great Southern Land
tridentt150v Offline
BritBike Forum member
tridentt150v  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 776
Great Southern Land
^^^ that means your warranty has now run out smile...cos Steve Kelly told me they offer a 3 year warranty on their products.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770721
04/11/19 3:38 am
04/11/19 3:38 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 57
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
R
Robin Giesbrecht Offline
BritBike Forum member
Robin Giesbrecht  Offline
BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 57
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Here is a copy of some info from Phil Pick on the hi gear issue. I have some pictures somewhere that I can post if I can find them.

"The inner race of the roller output bearing is the sleeve gear itself. There were/are stories of 'selective assembly', but I view these as a smokescreen. The difficulty was that early bikes used a different width roller. This bearing soon became not available from the bearing manufactures and a new 'standard' one was chosen. The difference in roller length is only some 0.040" or so. Now, it must be appreciated that the end-float of the sleeve gear is controlled by the sprocket and surfaces that are part of the sleeve gear. So, the correct bearing *must* be used with the matching gear. The easy way to ensure that no 'service' mix-up could occur was to only supply the sleeve gear and bearing *as a pair*

OK, it could be said that if one part required replacement for *any* reason then the other would not bear a wearing 'match' to it. . . . . but hey, we've been putting bikes together from parts that have had different amounts of use for years!
The sleeve gear/bearing combination could be fitted in any 5-speed gearbox of the period. Extra features (such as the '0'-ring groove to allow sealing of the splines, together with the chamfers sprocket that goes with it) came in over time, but this still didn't stop sleeve gear/bearing *sets* being fitted to any bike.
However, later on in production I'm guessing that enough time had passed and a BSA/Triumph decision was made to offer the sleeve gear (under a late part number) and the bearing (under the 60-4100 part number) as separate items. Of course this bearing (being slightly narrower in the rollers) would give excessive (and dangerous) end-float if used on a very early sleeve gear, and a 'narrow' sleeve gear if used in a wide roller bearing will lock-up.
So, with suitable fitting skills all problems can be identified.

I hope that was of interest.

Phil Pick"

I bought a Rita for my 73 T150V when they first came out and it worked great. Bike became a one kick starter. Also used a Boyer for a few years but could never get it to run properly.Tried all the troubleshooting before I just got tired of it. Also ran points on different triples for many years but they are a little tricky to set up. Have not done that in a long time.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770725
04/11/19 4:31 am
04/11/19 4:31 am
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
High gear bearing discussion here:
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/710308/Searchpage/1/Main/74879/Words/%2BRHP+%2BHoffman/Search/true/re-its-a-long-shot-but-any-5-spd-guys-have-their#Post710308
There were three different brand roller bearings used. Search for "RHP Hoffman" with my name and you will find several posts about it.
"in 4th gear" - you only have a 4 speed? The previous comments on the high gear and bearing do no apply.
Can you turn over the rear wheel in all the gears with the clutch pulled in? Then there is no serious gearbox problem.
Short or long chainwheel spider? Thrust washer behind chainwheel?
E-Starter?

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770744
04/11/19 11:40 am
04/11/19 11:40 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Oooppps, I meant 5th gear.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770745
04/11/19 1:01 pm
04/11/19 1:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Ok, I just went out to the shop. I can NOT turn the rear wheel with the clutch pulled in when in gear. I guess I know what I'm doiing after work, what do I look for in what order, or do I jiust tear the primary and trans down and start over.

need to add that the clutch is disengaging when in neutral, I pull the lever and kick, it is free.

Last edited by Richrd; 04/11/19 1:22 pm.

Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770753
04/11/19 3:39 pm
04/11/19 3:39 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
Cannot turn over the gearbox with the rear wheel in ANY gear?
In neutral, turning the mainshaft with the kicklever turns the 1st, 2nd and 4th gears.
Tie in the clutch lever then try turning the mainshaft with the kicklever in these gears and try turning the rear wheel in 3rd and 5th.
If you cannot get past 2nd because the mainshaft is locked you will have to remove the primary cover, release the clutch and rotate the chainwheel back and forth using the hub nut.
Presumably you can turn the rear wheel in neutral?
Remove the gearbox outer cover and check the kickstart gear ratchet on the mainshaft turns freely. Sometimes the sleeve gets crushed and locks it place.Then the kicklever gets driven by the ratchet and stays down.
Remove the inner gearbox case and rotate the rear wheel back and forth whilst looking at the gears. You may be able to see the problem.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770771
04/11/19 6:51 pm
04/11/19 6:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
wheel turns normally in neutral

In any gear, the wheel is hard to turn, almost like a dragging brake, but the crankshaft is not turning.

I will open the gearbox in a bit.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770777
04/11/19 7:12 pm
04/11/19 7:12 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
So the problem is probably not in the gearbox but in the chainwheel/clutch.
I sounds as though the clutch might be dragging on the housing. Crankshaft not turning means the clutch is slipping.
Did you change any parts in the chainwheel/clutch?

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770794
04/11/19 10:10 pm
04/11/19 10:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
this was a bike in a box. all the parts LOOKED good, but there is no way of knowing if they all came from this bike or eBay. that plus the fact that this is my first triple and I really dont know what I'm looking at or for.

I pulled the outter primary and put a socket on the crank and that part of the motor turned freely.

I'll pull the inner primary/clutch cover tomorrow.

thanks for the help.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770800
04/11/19 11:45 pm
04/11/19 11:45 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 776
Great Southern Land
tridentt150v Offline
BritBike Forum member
tridentt150v  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 776
Great Southern Land
Haven't put the clutch hoop spring in backwards have you?

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770811
04/12/19 1:36 am
04/12/19 1:36 am
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 143
Mullaloo Western Straya
B
Bodie Online content
BritBike Forum member
Bodie  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 143
Mullaloo Western Straya
Originally Posted by Richrd
I will open the gearbox in a bit.


When you do > It's a very slim chance but it can happen ! ..
One thing to check is this 'Circlip' that holds the Bearing & in turn also holds the Mainshaft in place hasn't popped out of it's retaining groove in the inner gearbox cover , It can happen sometimes if excessive force "Hammer use" has been used on either removing or fitting the clutch hub centre , As like most Circlips ~> These are punched out of sheet metal and so have one rounded edge & one sharp 90deg edge > > The sharp 90deg edge should always be fitted facing outwards to resist 'popping out'

[Linked Image]

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770882
04/12/19 7:48 pm
04/12/19 7:48 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
everything turns normal in neutral/ kickstart swings free with clutch in / motor turns with wrench on crank. in all of these the clutch is not turning.

in the pics you can see that the raised letterss on the back of the clutch basket were rubbing on the inner case when the chain wheel nut was tightened.

So help me one more time (at least), is there susposed to be a washer or shim in here?


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

and on a different note, I was looking a the rotor and there are 6 timing marks, three marked A and three marked B. why?

Last edited by Richrd; 04/12/19 7:56 pm.

Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770884
04/12/19 8:14 pm
04/12/19 8:14 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,976
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,976
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by Richrd
and on a different note, I was looking a the rotor and there are 6 timing marks, three marked A and three marked B. why?


http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/Trident/69-73TridentRepair.pdf

Sections B27 & BB27.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770919
04/13/19 6:21 am
04/13/19 6:21 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,421
Crossville, TN
DavidP Online content

BritBike Forum member
DavidP  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,421
Crossville, TN
Originally Posted by Richrd

in the pics you can see that the raised letterss on the back of the clutch basket were rubbing on the inner case when the chain wheel nut was tightened.

[Linked Image]

Is it just me or does it look like there's a gap at the bottom of the ring round that piece?


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V "Wotan"
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770954
04/13/19 9:17 pm
04/13/19 9:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 57
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
R
Robin Giesbrecht Offline
BritBike Forum member
Robin Giesbrecht  Offline
BritBike Forum member
R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 57
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Using the manual that LAB posted take a look at illustrations C2 and C5 and compare. Sure sounds like a clutch/chainwheel issue. On the backside of the chainwheel is the snout that slides over the clutch splined shaft. This can measure 9/16" (early) or 7/8" (later). Should measure this and see which one you have.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #770977
04/14/19 3:41 am
04/14/19 3:41 am
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
Are you referring to the gap at the base of the splines? The spline centre is separate and riveted into the clutch plate.
The clutch and inner primary could not be bolted together with the long nose spider and spacer.
Do you have the bronze washer behind the chainwheel? Without the pullrod in place the clutch back could hit the housing.
Have you tried going through all the gears with the rear wheel?

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #771226
04/16/19 6:04 pm
04/16/19 6:04 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Richrd  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,740
Springfield Nebraska
yes, I can get all the gears.

[

Last edited by Richrd; 04/17/19 1:26 am.

Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #771233
04/16/19 6:59 pm
04/16/19 6:59 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
D
DMadigan Online content
BritBike Forum member
DMadigan  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
D

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,042
ca, us
The needle thrust washer in the primary cover appears to have fretting. If it does you should consider replacing it along with the bearing.

Re: '74 t150 motor "tight" [Re: Richrd] #771234
04/16/19 7:04 pm
04/16/19 7:04 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,976
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,976
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by Richrd
[Linked Image]


Third picture.

Looks like there could be shims behind the thrust bearing?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1