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Re: Ignition Timing Tool [Re: Starfire] #770530
04/08/19 10:55 pm
04/08/19 10:55 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,005
Isle of Wight, UK
K
koan58 Online content
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koan58  Online Content
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K

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,005
Isle of Wight, UK
If you're happy to take such a risk with your engine, so be it. I certainly wouldn't be.

You may be lucky to have a rare EI that times accurately from the initial static setup, or if you only trickle about doing only a few occasional miles with the timing set only vaguely in the right area, it may just about satisfy your needs.

One of the great benefits of EI is "set and forget", meaning that you only have to set the timing accurately once (as compared with breakers with which timing is a regular maintenance task).

Initial strobe setting would always begin at the recommended factory setting, then if necessary varied by a small number of degrees to find the sweet spot. That variation will usually be SMALL.

EI's startup setting is most often grossly wide of the mark, only intended to achieve a running situation, then to be refined by strobing.

Removing the chaincase once for strobing is a very small amount of trouble to go to, to establish the initial timing from which to make any minor adjustments.

Alternatively, I'd suggest that you may be safer going back to points.

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Re: Ignition Timing Tool [Re: Starfire] #770537
04/08/19 11:28 pm
04/08/19 11:28 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,721
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,721
Owego, NY, USA
I have to agree with koan; should you encounter tuning problems down the road, you will want to know how the timing is set; that is, it's an essential factor in diagnosing a problem.

In regard to difficulty in removing the primary cover, this is a hurdle that needs to be crossed for a number of reasons. For covers that need to be periodically removed, I make my own gaskets out of a material called rubber-fiber compound, available in automotive supply outlets, and cement the gasket ONLY to the cover. This way, the cover can be removed without disturbing or damaging the gasket. Then, a set of socket-head (Allen-head) cover screws helps, and a tool to turn them quickly... I know, you have to undo the brake rod so the pedal can drop down out of the way, and lower the footrest. With all that though I can have the primary cover off in ten minutes, and back on in another ten.

If you do decide to bite the bullet and remove the primary cover, then position the crank as you did for static timing, and then make your timing marks to line up on the alternator rotor and stator. I'd suggest paint pen for the stator; you'll find that it will stay on there even after being exposed to heat and oil. And a scribe for the rotor. If the rotor already has timing marks on it, then just make the mark on the stator to line up with a mark on the rotor.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Ignition Timing Tool [Re: Starfire] #770570
04/09/19 10:06 am
04/09/19 10:06 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,529
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,529
argyll. scotland, uk
You can lead a horse to water etc etc.
Static timing with no strobe check, motor will run nearly as normal, but will almost certainly be too retarded costing performance and rideability.it will also run hotter and use more fuel if the timing is not accurately set.
If you like riding your bike i strongly recommend strobe timing.
if its just for show maybe not so important.
or as koan says , if you dont want to/ cant be bothered using a strobe go back to points, the static timing system sort of works OK with them.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 04/09/19 10:07 am.

71 Devimead A65 750
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Re: Ignition Timing Tool [Re: koan58] #770581
04/09/19 1:02 pm
04/09/19 1:02 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,464
West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy

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Allan Gill  Online Happy

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,464
West Yorkshire
Originally Posted by koan58
If you're happy to take such a risk with your engine, so be it. I certainly wouldn't be.
.
.

Since 2014 I’ve only strobe timed my engine once, that was recently. There was an outrigger plate fitted over the rotor so strobing became difficult, even then I found a few degrees either way would benefit top speed or fuel economy. As I’m running non standard cams, carbs exhaust etc I have to learn how to jet a bike. The time has been set to where it ran ok and jetted to suit. The bike has never pinked or ran out of breath at top end although I have felt it could rev more. (And has done on other settings) when I strobed the bike recently the timing was well excess of even 37 degrees.... yet it never pinged!.... but it was jetted to suit. If you read the spark plugs for ignition timing as some self help guides teach you to do then the timing was spot on.

I’ve now strobed it to 34 degrees and the bike needs re-jetting to suit.

The bikes done around 6000 miles like that, carrying luggage and around Europe and never caused a problem.

I’m not going to deny that the right timing is important, it is! And extremely important if you haven’t blended the tops of the pistons or jetted the bike to work with the timing it’s set at. But if you want the right starting point then strobe timing is imperative. If you want to adjust from there then fair enough but you need the right starting point.

As a side note, the previous setting attempts of mine were From using the timing plug and the red dot in the centre of the pick up plate.... it’s by no means accurate.


beerchug
Re: Ignition Timing Tool [Re: Starfire] #770594
04/09/19 3:02 pm
04/09/19 3:02 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 753
Ewing. NJ
E
edunham Offline
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edunham  Offline
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E

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 753
Ewing. NJ
A few observations. Personally, I prefer points on my old British singles and twins. And when I time them, I don't bother with a strobe anymore. I set them statically without locking the points cam, flicking the cam back and forth and playing with the setting until my continuity bulb just goes out as the cam reaches full advance. Checking with a strobe always showed I had it perfectly, so I don't bother to strobe them anymore. EI is different. I only have EI on my Trident which I strobe if the EI has been disturbed. If I was going to strobe time an older British bike without timing marks and didn't want to disturb the primary case, they made little half moon shaped degree wheels that screwed into the end of the points cam. Assuming that your EI is securely on its taper, you could plug one of those in and strobe it. Another method would be to install the timing device you just used to lock the crank at whatever degrees you choose. Make a mark with a sharpie on your points housing in line with the trigger. Using a protractor, mark TDC (remembering that the ignition is halftime). Now strobe to make sure you are firing right at the mark.. If you don't trust the slot in the crank, check TDC with the positive stop method.

Ed from NJ

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