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Headlight bucket substitutions #769668 03/31/19 1:09 am
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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So this week, while continuing the teardown on the Interceptor, I pulled the headlight off, expecting to simply remove the electronics and maybe have the bucket sandblasted and repainted.

Well, to my surprise, the left side of it, where the mounting bolt comes through, was rusted out and pretty much disintegrated upon removal. I don't think it can be repaired.

My question is, since I am having trouble finding one specifically for the Royal Enfields of this time frame, and since I know most British bikes in this era used Lucas headlight assemblies, does anyone know of a substitution part number or complete assembly with the built in amp meter that may have been more plentiful, say from a Triumph or something? Thanks.

Last edited by rufusneckbone; 03/31/19 1:10 am.

Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
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Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #769669 03/31/19 1:14 am
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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By the way, this is the latest picture. Lots still left to do, but it's progress.
[Linked Image][/url][/img]


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #769673 03/31/19 1:51 am
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Rohan Offline
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First ports of call for something like this is to see what the usual dealers have.
Hitchcocks and Burton Bike Bits, to name just 2.
(Is there someone in the USA that has/had parts ?)

They don't have a 66 parts list online, but a 65 or 67.
https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/partsbooks/341/1965_750cc_Interceptor_Series_I_(USA_Spec)
Page 26 looks like headlamp parts, but the actual shell isn't listed.
Be worth asking...

Headlamp LU/58937 not a code I'm familiar with (but don't have an Interceptor !), is that the Lucas model number ?

Looks like with a good clean and polish you put it back together and ride off into the sunset = an original paint bike.
Even if the chrome is a bit crusty.
Hopefully that seat is still intact, thats an important part of its history....

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: Rohan] #769699 03/31/19 1:39 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Thanks. I have been practically spending every spare moment on the 1965 parts book at Hitchcock's. It is beyond helpful. But in this case, you're right, the headlight shell itself isn't listed as available.

I suppose it would be prudent to call them, Burton's, or Baxter's, here in the States, and see if they may have any laying around in serviceable condition or maybe of one from another British bike would be the same. I have seen both black headlights and chrome on this bike in pictures. Mine happened to be black.

I do still have the seat, and it is intact, although I will most likely be getting it recovered in black vs. the red and white stripes that were on it.


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #769702 03/31/19 2:21 pm
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Chris Overton Offline
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The buckets are standard Lucas and differ only by holes punched for ammeter, lighting switch, and number of warning lights.
HMC and BBB in England are great. In North America try:
British Cycle Supply have operations in Maine and Nova Scotia. www.britcycle.com
Also try Baxters in Iowa www.baxtercycle.com Manager Jeremy is on this list and ethical about promotion, so on this forum is uncharacteristically shy.
Walridge Motors in Ontario www.walridge.com
Motoparts Inc. in Alberta www.motopartsinc.com

Every one of the above suppliers is run by knowledgeable enthusiasts.

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: Chris Overton] #769703 03/31/19 2:52 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Awesome. Thank you much, kind sir.


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #769805 04/01/19 11:10 am
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Al Eckstadt Offline
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Hitchcock's has a large stock of used parts. You should call. Some of what they have is on the Used Parts and Bikes Pages


Al Eckstadt
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #769958 04/02/19 9:52 pm
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Rohan Offline
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Is this at all like what you are chasing. ?

It won't have the quick detach plug underneath, but this is early Commando (not 850 like shown here though).

[Linked Image]

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770046 04/03/19 2:59 pm
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Chris Overton Offline
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What is needed is the plainest version. Painted black shell with holes for ammeter and wiring grommet. No switches or warning lights. I am guessing that is what was found on the bike.
It can be misleading to be slavish about "correct" spec's. Enfield would substitute parts if they had to, or if a dealer requested. Dealers would swap parts around to make a sale. Owners would swap parts from customizing desire. They, and the people fixing bikes, had to deal with constraints of availability of parts and money to pay for them. Use what you can find, and it will surely be "period correct". The bike's first owner certainly would have.

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770057 04/03/19 6:12 pm
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oilyamerican Offline
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"It can be misleading to be slavish about "correct" spec's. Enfield would substitute parts if they had to, or if a dealer requested. Dealers would swap parts around to make a sale. Owners would swap parts from customizing desire. They, and the people fixing bikes, had to deal with constraints of availability of parts and money to pay for them. Use what you can find, and it will surely be "period correct". The bike's first owner certainly would have."

Absolutely agree Chris.

I have an Apache sitting here equipped with a Lucas SR mag and a toolbox from a ??? Constellation ??? The oxidation and crudulation are consistent over the whole machine, so if these bits were changed OR added, it was eons ago.
Same with the VAX Interceptors: there's no factory brochure that shows, or mentions, them being equipped with anything more than the single speedo. Yet there are at least 4 machines within a certain serial number range that all have twin chronometric gauges, twin carbs and twin exhausts.
Are they factory/dealer/distributor special orders or a backyard mechanic's masterpiece ???
We'll never know since the factory records seem to show only despatch dates and destinations.



Will work for Guinness smile
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: Chris Overton] #770287 04/06/19 1:28 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Chris Overton
What is needed is the plainest version. Painted black shell with holes for ammeter and wiring grommet. No switches or warning lights. I am guessing that is what was found on the bike.
It can be misleading to be slavish about "correct" spec's. Enfield would substitute parts if they had to, or if a dealer requested. Dealers would swap parts around to make a sale. Owners would swap parts from customizing desire. They, and the people fixing bikes, had to deal with constraints of availability of parts and money to pay for them. Use what you can find, and it will surely be "period correct". The bike's first owner certainly would have.


You are correct. The bucket is a plain black (well, black and rust) model. It has the quick disconnect on the bottom, the ammeter on top, and one pilot and one main light inside.

I have checked around at most of the normal places' websites, but haven't found it quite yet. I will start calling instead. I know it is probably hard to keep a real time inventory updated online. If that doesn't work, I will just look for alternatives. I do like the chrome I have seen on some of the Nortons....

On a lighter note, I finally got a chance to take the title to the DMV yesterday morning. The ladies there were completely baffled at seeing an original 1966 motorcycle title. A Royal Enfield wasn't even listed in their computer as a make. They had to pretty much create a new entry for it. It took two of them a half hour to figure it out. I love this bike. For its originality, if nothing else.



Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770305 04/06/19 4:36 pm
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Looking back at your original photos, from what I could see....the headlight bucket doesn't look too terrible.
These units with the plug socket weren't used on too many bikes, so are correspondingly uncommon.
Couldn't yours be bead or vaporblasted and repainted ??? But maybe there's some unseen damage that is beyond repair ???


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Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: oilyamerican] #770334 04/06/19 9:41 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Well, the outside of it was fair, as you could see. The problem was, when I disassembled it to take it off, on the left hand side, on the interior, where the mounting bolt comes through, there was a chunk missing. I looked around at the shop, but didn't see where anything fell off. From what I reckon, the metal is far too thin to try to tack something on there to repair it.

I will be doing more work on it tomorrow, so I will snap some pics and see what everyone thinks. I hope I am wrong. I would like to keep it as original as possible.


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770349 04/07/19 12:09 am
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Ok, so I went down there tonight anyway. Here is a picture of the right side of the headlight...

[Linked Image]

And here is the left side, which is messed up...

[Linked Image]


So, there you have it. Something to contend with. Tonight I also broke two screwdrivers trying to get the flathead fork screws out of the top of the fork yoke. Those are gonna be a joy. I soaked them down with liquid wrench and will try again tomorrow.


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770386 04/07/19 1:53 pm
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If you have the bits that are missing in the photo, you might try brazing them back in.
Cheers.
Tom Oil

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770394 04/07/19 4:09 pm
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oilyamerican Offline
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Jeesh !
I can see now why you want to replace it !
A skilled sheet metal man may be able to restore it, but that metal is awfully thin.

One thought I had was...(and I don't know how it's fastened ..with rivets or clips ??) would be to carefully remove that socket.
Then find another shell and have someone cut a hole in it to refit the socket as close as possible to original. That might be easier than trying to patch up the old shell.

And I hope your wiring harness is savable, because finding one with a plug to fit that socket might be the other "fly in the ointment".
H's list this one- LU/54935481; but they don't say exactly what the application is...but jumping over to Burton's Enfield data base shows this to be correct for '64-66' 12V Interceptors.
They claim to have it in stock at £45 plus shipping.

Concerning those screws for the forks....you might try some heat from a heat gun. I'd be leery of getting near it with a torch.

Last edited by oilyamerican; 04/07/19 4:28 pm.

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Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770395 04/07/19 4:26 pm
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I'm no expert and I'm not sure from the photos what's called for exactly but there is this item on eBay that even if not perfect might serve as a place holder?

https://www.eBay.com/itm/New-Royal-Enfield-BSA-ARIEL-NORTON-7-Headlight-Assembly-Vintage-Models/401718919018?hash=item5d88503f6a:g:ODsAAOSwcntceSkB

I have no connection to the seller. But perhaps, given that you have an original to go by, maybe this replica could be modified to be more like the original?

David in Fort Lauderdale




1999 Royal Enfield Bullet
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: David Blasco] #770410 04/07/19 6:34 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Thanks for your help, man. That is awfully close, other than the switch being on the bucket itself rather than on the fork yoke like mine is. I am gonna call around some places this week and if no one has anything, I very well may have to work something up based on another model.


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: oilyamerican] #770414 04/07/19 7:07 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Originally Posted by oilyamerican
Jeesh !
I can see now why you want to replace it !
A skilled sheet metal man may be able to restore it, but that metal is awfully thin.

One thought I had was...(and I don't know how it's fastened ..with rivets or clips ??) would be to carefully remove that socket.
Then find another shell and have someone cut a hole in it to refit the socket as close as possible to original. That might be easier than trying to patch up the old shell.

And I hope your wiring harness is savable, because finding one with a plug to fit that socket might be the other "fly in the ointment".
H's list this one- LU/54935481; but they don't say exactly what the application is...but jumping over to Burton's Enfield data base shows this to be correct for '64-66' 12V Interceptors.
They claim to have it in stock at £45 plus shipping.

Concerning those screws for the forks....you might try some heat from a heat gun. I'd be leery of getting near it with a torch.


The harness is (mostly) salvageable. At the risk of getting too overwhelmed, I am going to cross that bridge when I get to it. Even if it means grafting the old socket back into a new harness at some point down the road. I do like the idea of having a new hole cut in another bucket if needed, though. That may be a great backup plan.

I tried everything I can to break those screws loose again today. Even had my pop use a crescent wrench on the screwdriver shaft while I turned the screwdriver. They will not budge. My concern is not damaging the screw to where I have to drill it out, and even more so, not damaging the yoke, because even though Hitchcocks has it, it ain't cheap.

On the other hand, we did manage to separate the frame and engine today. That was a major step. Now I have the carbs at home to rebuild, and will start tearing apart the top end of the engine to check out the pistons, valves, and see what kind of shape the rods and crank look to be in.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770426 04/07/19 9:14 pm
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Rohan Offline
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You can always solder thin sheet metal, no matter how thin it is, provided you can polish the rust off and find clean steel to work on.

A small patch could strengthen up those areas, considerably - a soldered patch can be much stronger than original.
And if neatly done would barely be visible, especially once painted.
Heck, you could just apply a layer of solder to strengthen it, although painting it might be a bit tricky.

And you would still have the original shell, rejuvenated for another life.
hopethishelps

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770479 04/08/19 11:21 am
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Good point Rohan, solder can be useful in repairing thin sheet metal . Not sure how it would hold up in stressed locations, but certainly worth a try.

FWIW, In olden pre- Bondo days, solder was used in automotive repair shops to fill in dents, etc. It was called "leading in" according to the oldtimers.
I used solder with good success to repair a damaged spot on the body of an Enfield toolbox.

And the beauty of using solder is, it won't shrink and crack like Bondo sometimes does.


Will work for Guinness smile
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: oilyamerican] #770489 04/08/19 1:51 pm
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tomoil Offline
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Originally Posted by oilyamerican
Jeesh !
I can see now why you want to replace it !
A skilled sheet metal man may be able to restore it, but that metal is awfully thin.

One thought I had was...(and I don't know how it's fastened ..with rivets or clips ??) would be to carefully remove that socket.
Then find another shell and have someone cut a hole in it to refit the socket as close as possible to original. That might be easier than trying to patch up the old shell.

And I hope your wiring harness is savable, because finding one with a plug to fit that socket might be the other "fly in the ointment".
H's list this one- LU/54935481; but they don't say exactly what the application is...but jumping over to Burton's Enfield data base shows this to be correct for '64-66' 12V Interceptors.
They claim to have it in stock at £45 plus shipping.

Concerning those screws for the forks....you might try some heat from a heat gun. I'd be leery of getting near it with a torch.



Here is a good place to get British wiring components, http://www.britishwiring.com/default.asp
Tom Oil

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770532 04/08/19 11:10 pm
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rufusneckbone Offline OP
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Thanks again, everyone, for the good advice. I contacted a buddy that is a machinist/welder, and he said he can most likely fix it and weld a new nut on the inside of it. I am sending it to him, since I figure it can't hurt anyway.

Otherwise, if all else fails, I will find something as close as possible from a different bike and roll with it.

Last edited by rufusneckbone; 04/08/19 11:27 pm.

Restoring 1966 Royal Enfield Interceptor 750. Looking for parts!
Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770588 04/09/19 1:30 pm
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Stuart Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted by rufusneckbone
The bucket is a plain black (well, black and rust) model. It has the quick disconnect on the bottom, the ammeter on top, and one pilot and one main light inside.

This is basically standard Lucas. I'm not 100% on details but if the shell you're looking for doesn't have either idiot lamps or a rotary Lighting switch in/on it, I believe it's basically what Lucas supplied to Triumph (and BSA?) in '66, albeit they had 'em chromed and without the "quick disconnect on the bottom".

Afaict, what you need most is a new shell? If so, the basic shell is easy. If you then don't mind it chromed (or have it dechromed and painted?) and you have the "quick disconnect" and the other bits you want, it's simply a matter of fitting 'em?

Btw, iirc the 'no idiot lamps' was one of three versions Lucas supplied in '66, the others have either one or two idiot lamp hole/s.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Headlight bucket substitutions [Re: rufusneckbone] #770817 04/12/19 3:05 am
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This is what your headlight bucket looks like.
Where are the bacon slicers on the front wheel? Lots to do here but when done you will have a great looking bike!
Cheers
Don

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
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