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Hornet #766030
02/21/19 12:01 pm
02/21/19 12:01 pm
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Stavanger
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gesu54 Offline OP
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Hi, need help identifying one of my spare engines to be restored.
It is labeled A65H4226Y
Seeing it is a Hornet which is normally 66/67 mod. , but what about Y at the end?
The right side of the crankcase is 70-9479, left 70-9000 they seem a little newer?
thank you in advance

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Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766033
02/21/19 1:03 pm
02/21/19 1:03 pm
Joined: May 2013
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West Yorkshire
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You will know about the cases being a match pair (set) or not by looking at the stamping on the lug for the lower engine mounting bolt, if the inner timing cover is original that should have the same number stamped onto the dome covering the end of the oil pump quill.

The -Y would have signified a change in certain electrics, those more wise on these changes will correct me but i believe it was a change from the 4ca to thr 6ca points (and points cam) and the change in location of the zenner diode from under the seat (mounted to a fugly plate) and was replaced to under the steering plate mounted under the bottom yoke/headstock. Being a hornet...... It would have had a 5 degree advance for the AAU as opposed to the 12 degree on the road models... Also being that it had no lighting or other electrics apart from the ET Ignition (and may have had a 5 wire stator???) there may or may not have been a zenner fitted at all....


beerchug
Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766047
02/21/19 4:56 pm
02/21/19 4:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,186
Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Online happy

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The -Y on a Hornet has nothing to do with electrics. Reality is, the -Y is the running change of the oil manifold growing the 3rd port for the top end oil feed and the oil tank losing the port for the top end oil feed.

On the street bikes, the -Y also seems to coincide with the zener diode change and some other minor changes. The points change occurred with the 68 model year.

Another oddity is the -Y bikes were 67 model year, which means the S/N should start A65HA


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766057
02/21/19 6:26 pm
02/21/19 6:26 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,767
New Jersey USA
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Suggest that you study the thread at the top of the BSA forum.
Gary E from Oregon seems to be the Hornet etc guru.
HTH

Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766691
02/27/19 11:30 pm
02/27/19 11:30 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,358
Medford, Oregon
Gary E Offline
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Rich B has it right. The -Y on the Hornets (and Wasp) were the oil manifold upgrade and change of the oil tank. It started with number A65HA 4144.

I'd like to see an image of the engine number as 4200's thru 4900's were Spitfires.

Last edited by Gary E; 02/28/19 12:10 am.

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Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766747
02/28/19 4:42 pm
02/28/19 4:42 pm
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Posts: 3,596
Orygone
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I don't have much knowledge on the unit twins but wasn't there a difference between the Y and the -Y?


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: Hornet [Re: Boomer] #766773
02/28/19 9:41 pm
02/28/19 9:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,186
Stone Creek OH USA
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Originally Posted by Boomer
I don't have much knowledge on the unit twins but wasn't there a difference between the Y and the -Y?


Bill B...


Don't get that hornets nest stirred up. I think we have a thread with about ½ million replies about the difference..

In a nutshell... -Y bikes were 1967 bikes with an oil manifold update and some other changes

Y bikes were 69/70 bikes most likely with extended warranties and a whole lot of theories....

I am pretty certain alien abduction was not among the Y bike theories!

laughing


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Hornet [Re: Rich B] #766836
03/01/19 12:57 pm
03/01/19 12:57 pm
Joined: May 2013
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West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy

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Originally Posted by Rich B
[quote=Boomer]

I am pretty certain alien abduction was not among the Y bike theories!

laughing


The -Y only had something to do with the so called "fake" moon landing laughing

It gets me that those with "the books" still turn around and say that the Y bikes are 67 bikes just sent back out again, when the frames and engines were totally different.


beerchug
Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766838
03/01/19 1:13 pm
03/01/19 1:13 pm
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Scotland
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The trouble is the BSA used the Y several times as an identifier for some new mid year change or other on the twins and singles, Y was not normally used in the frame or engine stamps so they had a lot spare from all the full alphabet sets they bought wink . Then you have the -Y and Y to contend with.

Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766947
03/02/19 6:13 pm
03/02/19 6:13 pm
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,596
Orygone
Boomer Offline

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Didn't mean to get that going I was just referring to the OP said his bike was a Y and the replies were referring to -Y and I thought there was a difference.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #766952
03/02/19 6:57 pm
03/02/19 6:57 pm
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Scotland
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There is a difference between Y and -Y, and multiple reasons for the Y too. You were right to bring it up and the Y needs to be read with the full number for the proper meaning.

Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768124
03/14/19 6:28 pm
03/14/19 6:28 pm
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Stavanger
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gesu54 Offline OP
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Hi, Thanks for answer.
I will try to post an image of engine number.
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Not shore if this works

Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768125
03/14/19 6:44 pm
03/14/19 6:44 pm
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Scotland
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That raised pad for the numbers on the crankcase was a 69 introduction, so read the Y in that context.

Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768177
03/15/19 3:45 pm
03/15/19 3:45 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,392
SE Ohio
No Name Man Offline

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So I think something's not right here. Or, the very rare 1969 Hornet.


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Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768178
03/15/19 3:49 pm
03/15/19 3:49 pm
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It will be likely one of those 67 A65 numbers used on a 69/70 bike, not unusual but would it have looked like a Hornet in 69/70 as it rolled off the line.

Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768184
03/15/19 5:23 pm
03/15/19 5:23 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
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Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Online content
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Looking at the crankcase photos there are several clues as follows:-
- the cases are matched as they both share the same 16 stamp
- the engine number pad is raised but doesn't have the multiple "BSA" background stamps, this probably dates the cases somewhere between 1969/70, but not 1971 onwards which was the OIF version
- there is an oil pressure gauge take-off built into the OPRV hole, this also makes the cases 1969 onwards

I imagine the cases are a replacement set and have been restamped with the original engine number which dates from 1966. Most likely this is what the "Y" indicates but I could be completely wrong.

What about the rest of the engine, does it have a finned rocker cover or any other clues?

Last edited by gunner; 03/15/19 5:28 pm.

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Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768202
03/15/19 8:39 pm
03/15/19 8:39 pm
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West Yorkshire
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The cases are anything from 69 onwards. Difficult to tell with out seeing the cylinder base studs.

Only the EARLY 69 cases were not stamped with the BSA background. However is is important to note that the raised boss was not machined either (these cases are)

Also as hornet production ceased in 67 (or rather at the end of the 67 model run) and these numbers are from 1966 (I believe 65 bikes were marked E and not H) then it’s highly likely that someone has ground off numbers to stamp these on. I would also be willing to say they are not the original stamps.


Had the cases been factory replacements or dealer replacements it would be more possible that the cases would still have the bsa background or un machined as stated earlier. The stamps would be relative to what the dealer had in.

Finned rocker covers came in from 67 and after 52 years that could have been changed multiple times over that time.


beerchug
Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768385
03/17/19 11:38 pm
03/17/19 11:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,456
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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The "6" on the case bottom is different from the six in the motor number. possibly the chap stamping the cases to be matched was in a different dept from the chap teeping the final number ( teeps) are stamps in Scotland. Who knows?

Last edited by gavin eisler; 03/17/19 11:41 pm.

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Re: Hornet [Re: gesu54] #768434
03/18/19 11:44 am
03/18/19 11:44 am
Joined: Dec 2004
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Scotland
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The matching numbers on the bottom of the crankcases were stamped just prior to the cases being machined, this was so they were kept together during the process, starts at 1 and never seen one over 999 so a recurring sequence. The large gap between the A and the 6 looks like it was a set of replacement cases, by 69 the A65 applied at the factory was a block stamp for the A65 bit.


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