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Drive side main bearing (and T/S) #767851 03/11/19 5:30 pm
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Tigernuts Offline OP
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Apologoes in advance if this is already covered in the 'tips & tricks' sticky thread - there's a lot to read on there.

Is C3 the correct internal clearance rating for the drive side bearing? Is the RHP (made in England) bearing with riveted steel cage perfectly adequate or is there a better choice?

Thanks. While I'm at it, are there any recommendations for the timing side roller bearing? The one that was on it had a nice brass cage - is this considered important or would a steel or fibre cage be just as good?


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Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #767863 03/11/19 7:51 pm
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Quote
Is C3 the correct internal clearance rating for the drive side bearing? Is the RHP (made in England) bearing with riveted steel cage perfectly adequate or is there a better choice?


No, it should be a CN. The RHP steel cage ball bearing is more than adequate,

John


Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: John Healy] #767911 03/12/19 4:57 pm
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Tigernuts Offline OP
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Thanks for this info John. There's a seller on eBay advertising these bearing with C3 clearance specifically for T150s & T160s. Glad I checked before buying!

Any thoughts on the timing side bearing?

Actually, any thoughts on shells? Are LFH big ends / mains shells perfectly OK or are there better alternatives? If I can find NOS original Triumph shells (were these Glacier or Vandervell?), is it advantageous to get these instead?


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Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #767920 03/12/19 5:54 pm
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If LFH is sourcing his shells from the UK then the only source for shell bearings in the UK is Glacier and these will be Al/Sn ie Aluminium Tin bimetal bearings. There are some 'Racing' big end shells about and these will be likely Trimetallic e.g. overlay plated VP2, if it is then it has a soft overlay plate over leaded bronze. The greater fatigue strength is in the bronze but the overlay is soft and wears quicker than the Al/Tin. Once the overlay is gone the acids in the oil attack the lead in the bronze and weaken it. So yes good for racing where you look inside the engine often but overkill for a road bike. Much better to fit an oil filter (standard Trident filters are fine) and use the Aluminium/Tin shells unless you have tuned the engine. Unless the fatigue strength of the bearing material is breached then the bearing will not fatigue fail. It like a 10 ft tall dam vs a 20 ft tall dam, if the water never goes over 9 ft depth then both dams perform the same, water of depth 11ft then the 10 ft dam has a problem. The water level is set by the power the engine produces. So another case of all that glitters is not gold for a road bike but great for racing.

Main bearings are best Al/Sn even for racing as they do not get the direct loading from combustion as the top big end shell does.


Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: kommando] #767935 03/12/19 9:16 pm
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Thank for this interesting info K, its good to know these things. I will ask LPW if the source of LFH shells is known (I certainly hope it is), and if they are made by Glacier.


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Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #767944 03/12/19 10:53 pm
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Well they are not called Glacier but Mahle, they own the Glacier and Vandervell trademarks but think Mahle means more.

Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #767958 03/13/19 12:25 am
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Appreciate the tech Kom.
Makes me wonder, would there be a case for using the trimetals as the top shell, and the bimetals as the lower shell?

Also, the centre mains of the triple have more loading than might be thought, with the lower shells often suffering worst. Might trimetals help here?

Loose thoughts.

Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #767987 03/13/19 7:23 am
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That is what is done on go performance diesels using expensive splutter bearings, it goes on the top position in the con rod and a lower cost bearing goes on the bottom.. On the mains it depends on the failure mode, if it's due to fatigue then trimetals should be better but that failure mode for fatigue is loss of lining from the surface of the shell face and signs of extrusion of lining at the edges. If you don't have that failure mode and it's just worn then trimetals may do worse due to the soft overlay. If the failure mode is a worn but polished shell then you need a better oil so the oil film that protects the bearing is stronger and reduces the metal to metal contact.

Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: kommando] #767995 03/13/19 11:30 am
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This is proving very educational. I'd never heard of sputtered bearings and looked them up. Found this site, which is not only informative but also looks as if it could be a good place to get bearings etc from...
https://www.enginepartsuk.net/glyco-engine-bearings


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Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #767998 03/13/19 11:52 am
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Glyco make good bearings, they have the only production line left in Europe capable of making cast copper lead for trimetallic bearings. All the other European companies use sintering lines to make a product, that after it is rolled is chemically the same, but has a small amount of porosity leading to a trimetallic material with 5% less fatigue strength than the cast material. The only other cast copper lead lines as in the US and Brazil, both owned by Mahle and some is shipped to Europe. Cast and Sintered copper lead is dying out, its market is being eroded by stronger Al/Sn mixes from below and from higher strength splutter and other exotic alternatives from above. The volumes for the Vintage bike market mean that currently only plain vanilla AL/SN bimetals and Cast/Sintered copper lead trimetals will be used with the Cast/Sintered copper lead trimetals dying out over the next few years, Al/Sn will be available as long as auto engines are made, its cheap and works except for high performance engines.

Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #768118 03/14/19 4:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Tigernuts
Thank for this interesting info K, its good to know these things. I will ask LPW if the source of LFH shells is known (I certainly hope it is), and if they are made by Glacier.


Glacier don't make those shell bearings anymore, and haven't done so for eons.

I'd agree with Kommando about Glyco bearings.

There are a lot of bearings out there being sold as new 'Glacier' or 'Vandervell' or 'Clevite' for that matter. If they arrive in a plain white box, then i'd ask yourself - 'Would a Company the size of Mahle let this happen?'

Re: Drive side main bearing (and T/S) [Re: Tigernuts] #768119 03/14/19 4:18 pm
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Glacier produced all their kits for Velocette spares ltd in plain white boxes, yes easily copied but there are other ways to tell if the bearing is genuine Glacier. Just post a pic of the stampings on the back of the bearing and I can tell most times.


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