BritBike Forum logo
BritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike Sponsor SteadfastCyclesBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorHepolite PistonsBritBike Sponsor
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
Alan_nc
Alan_nc
Greensboro, NC
Posts: 2,020
Joined: August 2001
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
a word from..
Manuals on DVD (Shipping included)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 4
Hornet
#766030 02/21/19 12:01 pm
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
gesu54 Offline OP
Novice poster
OP Offline
Novice poster
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Hi, need help identifying one of my spare engines to be restored.
It is labeled A65H4226Y
Seeing it is a Hornet which is normally 66/67 mod. , but what about Y at the end?
The right side of the crankcase is 70-9479, left 70-9000 they seem a little newer?
thank you in advance

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale: British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766033 02/21/19 1:03 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 42
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 42
You will know about the cases being a match pair (set) or not by looking at the stamping on the lug for the lower engine mounting bolt, if the inner timing cover is original that should have the same number stamped onto the dome covering the end of the oil pump quill.

The -Y would have signified a change in certain electrics, those more wise on these changes will correct me but i believe it was a change from the 4ca to thr 6ca points (and points cam) and the change in location of the zenner diode from under the seat (mounted to a fugly plate) and was replaced to under the steering plate mounted under the bottom yoke/headstock. Being a hornet...... It would have had a 5 degree advance for the AAU as opposed to the 12 degree on the road models... Also being that it had no lighting or other electrics apart from the ET Ignition (and may have had a 5 wire stator???) there may or may not have been a zenner fitted at all....


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766047 02/21/19 4:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,345
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,345
Likes: 26
The -Y on a Hornet has nothing to do with electrics. Reality is, the -Y is the running change of the oil manifold growing the 3rd port for the top end oil feed and the oil tank losing the port for the top end oil feed.

On the street bikes, the -Y also seems to coincide with the zener diode change and some other minor changes. The points change occurred with the 68 model year.

Another oddity is the -Y bikes were 67 model year, which means the S/N should start A65HA


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766057 02/21/19 6:26 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,110
Likes: 56
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,110
Likes: 56
Suggest that you study the thread at the top of the BSA forum.
Gary E from Oregon seems to be the Hornet etc guru.
HTH

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766691 02/27/19 11:30 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,785
Likes: 13
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,785
Likes: 13
Rich B has it right. The -Y on the Hornets (and Wasp) were the oil manifold upgrade and change of the oil tank. It started with number A65HA 4144.

I'd like to see an image of the engine number as 4200's thru 4900's were Spitfires.

Last edited by Gary E; 02/28/19 12:10 am.

1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766747 02/28/19 4:42 pm
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,453
Likes: 16
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,453
Likes: 16
I don't have much knowledge on the unit twins but wasn't there a difference between the Y and the -Y?


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: Hornet
Boomer #766773 02/28/19 9:41 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,345
Likes: 26
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,345
Likes: 26
Originally Posted by Boomer
I don't have much knowledge on the unit twins but wasn't there a difference between the Y and the -Y?


Bill B...


Don't get that hornets nest stirred up. I think we have a thread with about ½ million replies about the difference..

In a nutshell... -Y bikes were 1967 bikes with an oil manifold update and some other changes

Y bikes were 69/70 bikes most likely with extended warranties and a whole lot of theories....

I am pretty certain alien abduction was not among the Y bike theories!

laughing


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: Hornet
Rich B #766836 03/01/19 12:57 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 42
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 42
Originally Posted by Rich B
[quote=Boomer]

I am pretty certain alien abduction was not among the Y bike theories!

laughing


The -Y only had something to do with the so called "fake" moon landing laughing

It gets me that those with "the books" still turn around and say that the Y bikes are 67 bikes just sent back out again, when the frames and engines were totally different.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766838 03/01/19 1:13 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
The trouble is the BSA used the Y several times as an identifier for some new mid year change or other on the twins and singles, Y was not normally used in the frame or engine stamps so they had a lot spare from all the full alphabet sets they bought wink . Then you have the -Y and Y to contend with.

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766947 03/02/19 6:13 pm
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,453
Likes: 16
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,453
Likes: 16
Didn't mean to get that going I was just referring to the OP said his bike was a Y and the replies were referring to -Y and I thought there was a difference.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: Hornet
gesu54 #766952 03/02/19 6:57 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
There is a difference between Y and -Y, and multiple reasons for the Y too. You were right to bring it up and the Y needs to be read with the full number for the proper meaning.

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768124 03/14/19 6:28 pm
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
gesu54 Offline OP
Novice poster
OP Offline
Novice poster
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Hi, Thanks for answer.
I will try to post an image of engine number.
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Not shore if this works

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768125 03/14/19 6:44 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
That raised pad for the numbers on the crankcase was a 69 introduction, so read the Y in that context.

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768177 03/15/19 3:45 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 18
Life member
Offline
Life member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 18
So I think something's not right here. Or, the very rare 1969 Hornet.


69 A65T
71 B50T
85 K100RS
54/59 A10SR
69 B44VS
71 A65FS
95 Trident
Too much moderation is bad for you.

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768178 03/15/19 3:49 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
It will be likely one of those 67 A65 numbers used on a 69/70 bike, not unusual but would it have looked like a Hornet in 69/70 as it rolled off the line.

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768184 03/15/19 5:23 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 42
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 42
Looking at the crankcase photos there are several clues as follows:-
- the cases are matched as they both share the same 16 stamp
- the engine number pad is raised but doesn't have the multiple "BSA" background stamps, this probably dates the cases somewhere between 1969/70, but not 1971 onwards which was the OIF version
- there is an oil pressure gauge take-off built into the OPRV hole, this also makes the cases 1969 onwards

I imagine the cases are a replacement set and have been restamped with the original engine number which dates from 1966. Most likely this is what the "Y" indicates but I could be completely wrong.

What about the rest of the engine, does it have a finned rocker cover or any other clues?

Last edited by gunner; 03/15/19 5:28 pm.

1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768202 03/15/19 8:39 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 42
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 42
The cases are anything from 69 onwards. Difficult to tell with out seeing the cylinder base studs.

Only the EARLY 69 cases were not stamped with the BSA background. However is is important to note that the raised boss was not machined either (these cases are)

Also as hornet production ceased in 67 (or rather at the end of the 67 model run) and these numbers are from 1966 (I believe 65 bikes were marked E and not H) then it’s highly likely that someone has ground off numbers to stamp these on. I would also be willing to say they are not the original stamps.


Had the cases been factory replacements or dealer replacements it would be more possible that the cases would still have the bsa background or un machined as stated earlier. The stamps would be relative to what the dealer had in.

Finned rocker covers came in from 67 and after 52 years that could have been changed multiple times over that time.


Now let’s all have a beer beerchug

68’ A65 Lightning “clubman”
71’ A65 823 Thunderbolt (undergoing restoration)
67’ D10 sportsman (undergoing restoration)
68’ D14 trials (undergoing transformation)

Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768385 03/17/19 11:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 61
Britbike forum member
Online Content
Britbike forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 61
The "6" on the case bottom is different from the six in the motor number. possibly the chap stamping the cases to be matched was in a different dept from the chap teeping the final number ( teeps) are stamps in Scotland. Who knows?

Last edited by gavin eisler; 03/17/19 11:41 pm.

71 Devimead, John Hill, John Holmes A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Hornet
gesu54 #768434 03/18/19 11:44 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
Britbike forum member
Offline
Britbike forum member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,792
Likes: 48
The matching numbers on the bottom of the crankcases were stamped just prior to the cases being machined, this was so they were kept together during the process, starts at 1 and never seen one over 999 so a recurring sequence. The large gap between the A and the 6 looks like it was a set of replacement cases, by 69 the A65 applied at the factory was a block stamp for the A65 bit.


Moderated by  Allan G, Jon W. Whitley 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Gold Membership | Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4