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BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe #764132
01/31/19 10:11 pm
01/31/19 10:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 52
England
Servodyne Offline OP
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Servodyne  Offline OP
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England
Hello all,
I've a 1957 West coast A10 Spitfire that I would describe as a reproduction rather than original, although it does have many of the original parts as confirmed by Magnetoman's excellent detailed thread on this specific model and it did come with a US title dated 1966 with corresponding Spitfire serial numbers.

The question is, should the Catalina fuel tank have a vent tube or not? The attached Hap Alzina sales brochure of the day suggest not but MMs illustrations suggest it should have. Also should the colour be red or Silver? Again period black and white illustrations suggest it could be either, dependant on it being west coast or east. My tank is a indian reproduction in red with a vent pipe and I've a feeling it should be silver without a vent.

Finally I've just noticed on the Hap Alzina sales brochure that the 1957 Super Rocket came with an 'extra heavy' crankshaft. Does anybody know if this was also fitted to the Spitfire?
Many thanks
Jim

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Servodyne; 01/31/19 10:48 pm.

1957 BSA A10 Spitfire
1971 BSA A65 Firebird
1971 BSA A70 Lightning
1975 Norton Commando
1961 Norton 99
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Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764286
02/02/19 6:21 pm
02/02/19 6:21 pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 52
England
Servodyne Offline OP
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Servodyne  Offline OP
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England
Thanks for that. I've just come across the attached service bulletin from a BSAOC member which indicates that they were used on the very first Scrambles Rockets (SR) up to CA10 SR231. I wonder if magnetoman has picked up on this with his.
Cheers

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


1957 BSA A10 Spitfire
1971 BSA A65 Firebird
1971 BSA A70 Lightning
1975 Norton Commando
1961 Norton 99
Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764321
02/03/19 12:19 am
02/03/19 12:19 am
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 541
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Online content
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chaterlea25  Online Content
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C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 541
Cork Ireland
Hi All,
Another topic about those cranks here https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=13717.0

John

Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764332
02/03/19 2:20 am
02/03/19 2:20 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,137
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Servodyne
the attached service bulletin ... indicates that they were used on the very first Scrambles Rockets (SR) up to CA10 SR231. I wonder if magnetoman has picked up on this with his.
I haven't commented on your questions because I don't know anything about 1957 Spitfires beyond that contained in my restoration thread.. However, thanks for pointing out that Service Bulletin. Although I hadn't posted it because it doesn't apply to my bike -- note: it applies after engine no. 232, not to the very first ones -- I've now added it to an appropriate page of my restoration thread.

Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764362
02/03/19 11:06 am
02/03/19 11:06 am
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 52
England
Servodyne Offline OP
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Servodyne  Offline OP
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England
I must admit that read it that the early Rocket engines had the heavy crankshaft and later ones had the standardised crank with the three retaining bolts on the flywheel.


1957 BSA A10 Spitfire
1971 BSA A65 Firebird
1971 BSA A70 Lightning
1975 Norton Commando
1961 Norton 99
Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764386
02/03/19 5:01 pm
02/03/19 5:01 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,137
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Servodyne
I must admit that read it that the early Rocket engines had the heavy crankshaft and later ones had the standardised crank with the three retaining bolts on the flywheel.
On second reading, and comparing part numbers, I believe you are correct. Which would mean I should find that transitional heavy crankshaft in my Spitfire when I open its cases.

Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764406
02/03/19 6:48 pm
02/03/19 6:48 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,464
West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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West Yorkshire
Is it not the same crank that was fitted to all the later a10’s?


beerchug
Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764414
02/03/19 7:39 pm
02/03/19 7:39 pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 52
England
Servodyne Offline OP
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Servodyne  Offline OP
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England
In a word no. Some call them one piece cranks but they're not. They have a flywheel ring shrunk onto the crank forging which is retained by three screwed dowels finished flush with the outer surface.

[Linked Image]


1957 BSA A10 Spitfire
1971 BSA A65 Firebird
1971 BSA A70 Lightning
1975 Norton Commando
1961 Norton 99
Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764418
02/03/19 7:56 pm
02/03/19 7:56 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,137
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Is it not the same crank that was fitted to all the later a10’s?
Originally Posted by Servodyne
In a word no.
BSA Parts Service Bulletin G.A.2 dated July 1957 says in the interests of standardization a new crankshaft has been fitted to standard, Super Rocket, Standard Rocket, and Scrambles Rocket A10s, with the part numbers for the old and new crankshaft and flywheel assemblies:

Old A10 Std: 67-774
Old A10 RR: 67-1149
New Part no. 67-1216

Catalogs MC991-2 (no date) and MC1009-2-2 (reprinted April 1958) both cover 1954-1957 A10s including Road Rockets. Both give 67-1216 as the part number of the Road Rocket assembly, but 67-663 for the standard A10 (for the standard A10 the part no. includes the rods).

Catalog 1009-3-3 covers Super Rockets from engine CA10R-6001, which was 1958. It gives 67-1216 as the part number for the A10 and A10 Super Rocket.

Since catalogs are updated to include the specifications at the time of printing, short-lived intermediate part numbers that were superseded can be missed. In this case it appears that crankshaft assembly 67-1149 shown in Servodyne's previous post was just such a short-lived item.

Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Magnetoman] #764434
02/03/19 9:46 pm
02/03/19 9:46 pm
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 52
England
Servodyne Offline OP
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Servodyne  Offline OP
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England
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
On second reading, and comparing part numbers, I believe you are correct. Which would mean I should find that transitional heavy crankshaft in my Spitfire when I open its cases.


That's going to be interesting, I'll look forward to reading about it in your excellent Spitfire story.


1957 BSA A10 Spitfire
1971 BSA A65 Firebird
1971 BSA A70 Lightning
1975 Norton Commando
1961 Norton 99
Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764454
02/04/19 1:25 am
02/04/19 1:25 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,137
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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U.S.
Interestingly, thanks to Servodyne we now know crankshaft 67-1149 was superseded sometime during the 1957 model year[*] but the part number does not show up in the 1959, 1962, or 1963 Master Priced Lists (which include superseded parts). However, it does show up in 1965 (and 1970) with the comment to use 67-1216.

[*] Bulletin G.A.2. says "Scrambles Rocket" after engine CA10SR.231 were fitted with the new crankshaft, and that bike was despatched 5 May 1957.

Attached Files Crankshaft67_1149.jpg
Re: BSA A10 A10 Spitfire fuel tank vent pipe [Re: Servodyne] #764617
02/05/19 11:17 pm
02/05/19 11:17 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,464
West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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West Yorkshire
Cool! Never seen one before, seems a lot of weight in the centre of the flywheel though. Surely closer to the centre any extra weight will not have any gains on inertia... just more weight.


beerchug

Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 

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