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Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament #762604
01/14/19 11:15 pm
01/14/19 11:15 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 534
Southeast Usa
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Bigtwin Offline OP
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Southeast Usa
Greetings fellow Indian RE fans!
Can anyone definitively state whether or not the Indian ornament on STD Chiefs & Trailblazers was illuminated or not? Seems like I remember seeing the Indian face Illuminated back in the day, but memory fades. There might have been a thread on this earlier... Probably entirely moot these days anyway. My current Trailblazer project has the solid chrome ornament in place (appears to be factory fitment) and my unmolested Chief Front fender has no signs of ever having any sort of ornamentation mounted.I understand that leaving them as they are found makes the most sense, but I am determined to get these things as close to Standard and as "right" as possible. Anyone on the forum have the factory accessory catalog circa 57-60?

REgards!
Bigtwin

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Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #762609
01/15/19 1:14 am
01/15/19 1:14 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,574
Oztralia
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Rohan Offline
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Oztralia
"Solid chrome ornament " ???

The replica indian head ornament I purchased some years back is a hollow alloy casting, thinly chromed,
and it includes a light bulb arrangement inside.
I've compared it with a Springfield made item, and it was a fairly close copy...

The fender will have a hole for the wiring if it was thus included ?
Was there a wiring diagram or parts books for the Indian models, that would put it in black and white.

Gordon May's book on Enfield and Enfield/Indian models shows the ornament on some years and models of Indian/Enfields.
hth

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Rohan] #762644
01/15/19 4:23 pm
01/15/19 4:23 pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 233
Rossland BC Canada
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Chris Overton Offline
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From memory of what I learned a few years ago (Not from being there and aware at the time) the illuminated version was on the first year or so of Trailblazers, then the cheaper alternative was substituted. I once had a TB front fender here, and it had a hole for the wiring. (The fender changed its name to mudguard and I escorted it to a safe home in a foreign country, so no need to ask to buy it....)
The local (Springfield) Indian club has a stash of the "imitations" and attaches them to a board for award presentations.

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #762645
01/15/19 4:27 pm
01/15/19 4:27 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 136
Las Vegas, NV, USA
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tomoil Offline
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Las Vegas, NV, USA
Hi Ray
The parts book shows a "fender medalion # 5400062CH", but my catalog shows no pictures. I checked with HMC and BBB, but with no results in a part number search
My Chief has the alloy chrome plated Indian head, and 2 spare front fenders I have, have 2 holes which would accommodate the same piece but without a hole for wiring.
Hope this helps.
Tom Oil

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: tomoil] #763063
01/20/19 9:28 pm
01/20/19 9:28 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 534
Southeast Usa
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Bigtwin Offline OP
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Southeast Usa
Hi, Tom & all!
Thanks! None of my Chief Parts supplements show any pictures/drawings either... Upon inspection, the Indian head ornament on my Trailblazer is a solid "chunk" and chromed...maybe aftermarket or previous owner creation. One never knows with these things! 2 "spare " fenders??? Wow! Some guys have all the luck! Guess my Chief will continue on as is (without an ornament) as I am reluctant to locate & drill new holes in anything! Other missing bits from my Chief Project: Some sort of medallion which had been located on the front center of the Dashboard and (2) small Indian script badges for the spotlight rims... Seems the previous owner chose to drill out the rivets & remove! No doubt, more unobtainium!

REgards!

Bigtwin

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #763113
01/21/19 2:43 pm
01/21/19 2:43 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 136
Las Vegas, NV, USA
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tomoil Offline
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I have an extra fender medallion Mr Bigtwin, and perhaps I could make a mold of the dashboard medallion for you.
Cheers!
Tom Oil

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #763474
01/25/19 1:59 am
01/25/19 1:59 am
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Oztralia
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Rohan Offline
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Are there any pics anyplace of these medallions and badges, they seem to gone under the radar a bit.
Just curious.....

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Rohan] #763494
01/25/19 2:57 pm
01/25/19 2:57 pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 233
Rossland BC Canada
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Chris Overton Offline
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And where is the tooling that created them? Someone must have saved the dies somewhere.

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Chris Overton] #763547
01/25/19 9:57 pm
01/25/19 9:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 339
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline

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New Jersey
Originally Posted by Chris Overton
And where is the tooling that created them? Someone must have saved the dies somewhere.

Remember the final scene from "Raiders of the Lost Ark"...? laugh


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll
Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #763675
01/27/19 4:08 pm
01/27/19 4:08 pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 233
Rossland BC Canada
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Chris Overton Offline
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Rossland BC Canada
Relaying a message from Mark Mumford, who is having difficulty signing on to post:
The sunburst Indian medallion is available at Hitchcock's. It is not listed, just e-mail HMC.

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Chris Overton] #763814
01/28/19 11:43 pm
01/28/19 11:43 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 534
Southeast Usa
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Bigtwin Offline OP
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Southeast Usa
Hi & thanks, Chris!
Always seem to forget that Alan has accrued a lions share of oddball bits! Thanks!

REgards!

Bigtwin

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #765222
02/12/19 7:07 pm
02/12/19 7:07 pm
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,178
Trenton, New Jersey
royaloilfield Offline
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Here is what was on my 1956 Indian Trailblazer barn find. It appears to be anodized over aluminium? rather than chrome plated.

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Brian
Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #765475
02/15/19 7:25 pm
02/15/19 7:25 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 534
Southeast Usa
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Bigtwin Offline OP
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Southeast Usa
Hi, Brian!
Thanks for the pix! I am always amazed at the minor differences in these things from year to year or to previous owners! Now, how to explain my current Chief and Trailblazer project fenders with no holes present for ornaments...geesh!

REgards!

Bigtwin

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #766354
02/25/19 12:43 am
02/25/19 12:43 am
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,071
Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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The "Indian head" fender ornament on the ORIGINAL, American-made Indian motorcycle was indeed "illuminated," as a parking light similar to the fender lamp that the Harleys used.

The stamped or die-cast imposter used by Enfield to satisfy the American dealers of the defunct INDIAN brand was a cheap, cheesy substitute in attempt to keep what was left of the "Indian image" alive to keep them in business.
Those bikes were good bikes but, like it or not, their dealers' attempts at re-styling Enfields to become "Indians" was
hideous. Although they are a part of motorcycle history, their styling is a joke.

But the marketing worked until 1958, when Enfield got wise and began marketing their bikes in the USA under their own name.

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #766750
02/28/19 5:17 pm
02/28/19 5:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 177
USA
oilyamerican Offline
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USA
Styling my friend, is very subjective. IMHO the heavily valanced fenders of the Springfield Indians were hideous monstrosities.
But they defined the original Indian "look" and some folks loved 'em.

The interesting thing about RE badged Indians to me is...for years they were regarded as the illegitimate step child that no one wanted anything to do with. They weren't "real" Indians.
Then somebody "discovered" that there weren't that many made; with production numbers in the hundreds rather than thousands. Now, they are getting noticed as a bit of a rarity.
And trying to restore one that is missing any of that "hideous" joke of styling is a major PIA. Very few parts are getting replicated and the period parts books aren't much help either.
But that is half the fun of vintage machines- tracking down the correct parts !
BTW, I need some pieces to finish out my Apaches, anybody got some spares ????


Will work for Guinness smile
Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #767174
03/04/19 6:17 pm
03/04/19 6:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 177
USA
oilyamerican Offline
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USA
OK Gents, FWIW..... someone has just listed a two piece indian head fender ornament on eBay.. item # 292987992666
I have no affiliation with this listing


Will work for Guinness smile
Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #769209
03/25/19 9:00 pm
03/25/19 9:00 pm
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 534
Southeast Usa
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Bigtwin Offline OP
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Southeast Usa
Hi!
Just caught up on the many comments on this thread.... You are an Apache owner, too? What pieces do you need? Mine is an ex- dirt tracker turned into a street hotrod, so it needs most everything to be returned back to stock (whatever that is!)... I might have some bits to trade, though!

REgards

Bigtwin

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Bigtwin] #769468
03/28/19 12:04 pm
03/28/19 12:04 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 177
USA
oilyamerican Offline
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USA
Hey Bigtwin,
Right now, I'm looking for rear mudguard(s) (fenders, in US jargon) The normal style..that fits close to the seat; not the later ..."hug the rear wheel, so it packs with mud" style !
I "think" these were first offered in alloy, until somebody realized they mangle quite easily and then they came as chromed steel.
Also looking for the "correct" (is there such a thing ??) battery carrier , that sits on top of the gearbox.
Again, I "think" these are standard/typical 50's battery holders, just rigged up with extra bracketing to allow them to be mounted specifically to the gear box and frame on the Apaches.
If I could find one good original, I could reverse engineer and make some decent copies ??


Will work for Guinness smile
Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: oilyamerican] #769470
03/28/19 1:09 pm
03/28/19 1:09 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 136
Las Vegas, NV, USA
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tomoil Offline
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I have an extra battery Carrier that fits on the Chief. I don't know if it will work on an Apache.
Tom Oil

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: oilyamerican] #769472
03/28/19 1:57 pm
03/28/19 1:57 pm
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 233
Rossland BC Canada
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Chris Overton Offline
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Rossland BC Canada
For a battery carrier, look at RE PN 34191. The older Enfield frames, 1955 and earlier, had no central "toolbox" and used a holder that looks generic. Hitchcocks sell them for £15 (which is not many $ in these times). Their PN is 110164, only referencing "code 34191" and state it needs repainting. That sounds exactly like the battery carrier I sourced in Blighty but I think originated in India. Would have been used on the India Bullets because they retained the old frame.

Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: Chris Overton] #769483
03/28/19 5:38 pm
03/28/19 5:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 177
USA
oilyamerican Offline
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USA
Chris,
Yes that is what it would look like... generically speaking.


Will work for Guinness smile
Re: Enfield Indian Chief/Trailblazer fender ornament [Re: tomoil] #769484
03/28/19 5:40 pm
03/28/19 5:40 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 177
USA
oilyamerican Offline
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USA
Not 100% sure.... but I think even though it rode in the same location, the Chief may have had a carrier that accommodated a larger battery ???


Will work for Guinness smile

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