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rear brake arm angle #762561
01/14/19 5:29 pm
01/14/19 5:29 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 505
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline OP
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rocketscientist  Offline OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
I have a 69 A65 that is going back together. its a bitsa, but mostly a 69 chassis.

the rear brake arm was pointed up, rather than down when I got it. It looks like that is the only way it can go with the return spring I have.
Any worries about leaving it up? I noticed the OIF ones are that way. -- other than it LOOKING wrong for a 69.
thanks

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Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #762569
01/14/19 6:46 pm
01/14/19 6:46 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,349
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
OIF 71s and 69 A65 , the rear brake arm points down, well mine does anyway, if it points up you may need to get creative with the brake rod so it clears the rear suspension. I would get the correct spring, its more aesthetically pleasing if the brake rod is parallel to the swinging arm and you wont have clearance issues..


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #762582
01/14/19 8:19 pm
01/14/19 8:19 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 959
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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Farnham, Surrey, UK
Looking at pics of other 69 A65s, it looks like down is the correct orientation for the rear brake arm.

Check you have the right brake plate fitted, maybe some pics would help.

I have seen some 71 onwards OIF A65;s and B25;s with the brake arm pointed upwards, this may be an attempt to improve the brake performance by changing whether the leading or trailing shoe contacts the drum first but I'm not sure it works.

I would try the standard 69 setup which is with the brake arm down.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #762596
01/14/19 9:43 pm
01/14/19 9:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,349
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
Gunner makes a good point about the shoe/ cam/ lever orientation. With the Op lever up, the forward / leading shoe will operate from the top of the cam and come on first,and may be a bit severe, IMO BSA got this brake dead on, note the shoes are not lined equally, the manuals make no mention of this, on my 71 ( still on its original linings!) the leading shoe has a shorter lining than the trailing shoe, I think this is to prevent grabby operation.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #762993
01/19/19 11:19 pm
01/19/19 11:19 pm
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RyanO Offline
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I actually have the same exact question with my 1967 Royal Star. The rod was not clearing the suspension so I've flipped it and purchased an OEM spring, since the spring that was on there was way off.

The issue I'm having now though is figuring out how to get this rear brake working properly.

For starters, can anyone help me out with how to re-assemble the rear brake arm/brake spring? I must be overthinking this. Here is the picture of the bike and the current state of the rear brake (I'm aware it's not currently really attached just kind of resting there while I figure out the orientation)

https://imgur.com/a/QZDWmbi

Last edited by RyanO; 01/19/19 11:22 pm.

1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #762997
01/20/19 12:26 am
01/20/19 12:26 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,349
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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argyll. scotland, uk
The spring is on upside down, the short end is located in a hole in the alloy supporting web.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #762999
01/20/19 12:39 am
01/20/19 12:39 am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,550
Auckland NZ
Ignoramus Offline
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Auckland NZ
this subject actual caused a recall by the factory to the dealers who were required by bsa to preposition the arm facing downwards , fit a new spring and fit a longer strap 6 3/4 long

the service bulletin was dated 4/2/71

i have tried to find a link but cant , but i do have an hard copy of the sheet (who knows where i got it)

i will try to search out a link for you all to see when i have more time in the next few days.

quote:

DEALER ACTION REQUIRED inspect all 1970 A50/A65 models in stock or in your service department for the instillatio of the short strap as described above.....replace with longer strap (# 42-6063) and spring (#68-6134) ............it then goes on to detail the warranty claim procedure.

so yeah although some left the factory with the arm pointing upwards this is actualy wrong according to the recall.


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763036
01/20/19 3:53 pm
01/20/19 3:53 pm
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 271
NYC & Upstate NY
A
AML Online content
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AML  Online Content
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Posts: 271
NYC & Upstate NY
Hope this helps
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763053
01/20/19 8:16 pm
01/20/19 8:16 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,288
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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Posts: 3,288
arkansas
I'm glad to see that service sheet. I remembered that this issue came up a few years ago, but not the details.

Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763069
01/20/19 10:36 pm
01/20/19 10:36 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 505
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
Clears it up perfectly . BOTH, again, are correct from factory, but the up-arm is problematic.
RyanO: your rod adjusting nut is on backwards too......

Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763099
01/21/19 7:54 am
01/21/19 7:54 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,340
Aus
N
NickL Offline
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Aus
Hmmmmm, my '72 has the brake arm upwards. Never really noticed any grabbing, just a very good brake.
It was like that when i bought it, so i've never changed it.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: NickL] #763117
01/21/19 5:43 pm
01/21/19 5:43 pm
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
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RyanO Offline
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Wow thanks for sharing that @AML and @Ignoramus, I literally never would have figured that out. I did replace the shorter strap with the 6 3/4" one last week because I read that it should be that length, so I'm half-way to getting this straightened out. Anyone have the Warranty Claim details? wink haha

Also thanks @rockscientist this thing is in my garage, I just quickly tossed the nuts back together so they weren't floating around and I didn't lose them anywhere.


1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763302
01/23/19 5:24 pm
01/23/19 5:24 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 505
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline OP
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rocketscientist  Offline OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
5 3/8 brake strap and up pointing brake arm from stock. Bought the right spring, now to make the correct length brake arm. thanks for thehelp......

Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763351
01/24/19 12:37 am
01/24/19 12:37 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,650
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Owego, NY, USA
And, Ryano... There should never be a greater than 90 degree angle between the brake rod and the actuating lever, as this dramatically reduces leverage on the arm. Either your brake shoes are badly worn, or you just need to rotate the actuating lever to the next spline (or two) when you install it.

I see also that the nut on the brake arm is not all the way on. This may be because the spring is on upside down, as Gavin pointed out, but that nut should be flush with the end of the cam pivot when tightened down.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: Mark Z] #763407
01/24/19 5:14 pm
01/24/19 5:14 pm
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
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R
RyanO Offline
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All good feedback I appreciate it! Can you let me know if this is looking better? I had a little bit of time to mess with it this AM. I think this looks more or less like the image in that service bulletin.

https://imgur.com/a/GzbewSY

The last two pictures are just making sure I have this orientation correct as I don't want to try and fit this spring on with brute force and ignorance and end up with a badly warped one like one of the ones I have here. Can you let me know which side the short arm goes into? Left or Right? And then I assume I just use a flat tip screw driver to pop the long arm onto the brake arm?


1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763573
01/26/19 2:42 am
01/26/19 2:42 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,650
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Owego, NY, USA
The brake arm angle looks good now. I'm not sure about the spring though. As noted above, one end of the spring should protrude through that hole in the plate abutment. The other end of the spring should wrap around the brake arm, and should be visible in the picture.

There doesn't have to be a whole lot of tension on that spring - the main force keeping the shoes away from the drum is provided by the springs that pull the shoes together. The brake arm spring is merely to keep tension on the brake rod & return the brake pedal to its stop when released.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: Mark Z] #763595
01/26/19 2:58 pm
01/26/19 2:58 pm
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RyanO Offline
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Ya that's basically the big issue I'm left with and trying to figure out with this bike. The brake pedal doesn't want to return. This spring just honestly doesn't look like it's the correct one for my bike... if anyone else has a similar setup with some pictures that would be awesome


1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763604
01/26/19 3:48 pm
01/26/19 3:48 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 505
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
I just made the long anchor strap and bought the 68-6134 return spring. Check the brake arm pivot,that tends to bind up with crap....and its sticks/drags.......

Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763621
01/26/19 6:58 pm
01/26/19 6:58 pm
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RyanO Offline
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Do you have any pics of your setup with the spring?

The brake arm pivot seems to be working decent.

Last edited by RyanO; 01/26/19 9:10 pm.

1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763639
01/27/19 1:40 am
01/27/19 1:40 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 505
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline OP
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rocketscientist  Offline OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
you can see my "as bought" 69 chassis with the short anchor strap and up arm. If you look at the geometry, there will be little chain adjustment before the short anchor strap is almost fully extend (for lack of any better words.....) the next pict is of a low position arm with long strap (441...but A65 is very similar) zoom in to see the spring. Mine is not assembled yet, so I don't have a personal pict of the new strap and spring.

Attached Files 20180611_114007_resized.jpgbsa rear brake.jpg
Last edited by rocketscientist; 01/27/19 1:46 am.
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763642
01/27/19 2:36 am
01/27/19 2:36 am
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RyanO Offline
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Ya the first pic is what mine looked like at one point with the longer arm and spring up.

If you take a look at this picture here, I can't figure out how this spring is supposed to fit like the one in that picture. I actually don't see the spring coming in the hole on the alloy supporting web in that picture either.

https://imgur.com/a/WGIcM2i

If you do end up taking a pic of your setup that would be awesome. I'm fresh out of various springs and ideas at this point. The brake works sweet it just doesn't pop back like I need it too cry


1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763667
01/27/19 3:43 pm
01/27/19 3:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,710
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Online content
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Springfield Nebraska
Im going to say you have the wrong spring. There are a lot being sold that are wound the wrong way. Ill takes some pics when i go out to the shop.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763682
01/27/19 5:00 pm
01/27/19 5:00 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,650
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Owego, NY, USA
I agree with Richrd; wrong spring. Sorry I can't provide a picture; the only one I have on hand now is a '66, which has the flat steel backing plate instead of the alloy webbed backing plate - different setup.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763685
01/27/19 5:17 pm
01/27/19 5:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,650
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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I'm going to reverse what I just said. I was just looking at the '70 Tbolt pictured in the "Getting a '70 Thunderbolt Back on the Road" thread.

I see that the "anchor" end of the spring goes through the hole in the web from the OUTSIDE to the INSIDE. It looks like, if you were to rotate that spring about 180 degrees counter-clockwise, the anchor end of the spring MIGHT go through that hole. (If not then you have the wrong spring.)

Yes, this will also move the brake arm-end of the spring counter-clockwise, which is what you want. When you install the brake arm, you should have to put tension on the spring to get the brake arm where you want it, and then push it onto the square shaft.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: rear brake arm angle [Re: rocketscientist] #763709
01/27/19 9:29 pm
01/27/19 9:29 pm
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RyanO Offline
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Thanks guys. Rich let me know if you snap a pic. That’ll at least clear my sanity a little if it isn’t in fact the wrong spring and then I’ll know I need to try and chase down a properly wound one.


1967 Royal Star Frame with a 1968 Firebird Scrambler Motor
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