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Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator #762477
01/13/19 9:44 pm
01/13/19 9:44 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

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Ianbuck  Offline OP

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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Just installed a new SRM clutch (The old one was knackered), I also filtered their aluminium billet pressure plate and release bearing. The problem I'm now having is the 1970 (Triumph) style lift mechanism isn't working properly (if it ever did?).

There is a loud knocking (clicking) noise coming from the lifter with the vibration felt though the calble and bar lever, as it reaches the end of its pull. I assume this is from the ball bearings in the lifter not rolling in unison.

The lever side of the lifter looks to be is good condition, however the fixed thrust plate side was a bit pitted. I cleaned the ball bearing indents with a round grinding stone, and they are now quite smooth. I also initially used a light oil to lubricate the mechanism as this was recommended for a smoother operation, but i have also tried a general purpose grease, with only a slight improvement.

Is there anything else I can try before sourcing replacement parts, assuming they are readily available?

Would shaping the ball bearing pockets on the thrust plate side, making them a slightly oval to introduce a longer ramp help? It would have to be done by eye with a dremel, so would not be super precise. Or would this interfere with the return action of the lifter?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Ian


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Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #762486
01/13/19 10:51 pm
01/13/19 10:51 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

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Ianbuck  Offline OP

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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Trying to work out how much to cut off was quite difficult to judge, but after much measuring I cut off 33mm (1-1/8ins). I've adjusted the free play at the clutch centre (1/4 turn) and I still have a bit of free play left at the lever. I'll try adding a small shim in the end of the lifter shalf tomorrow. Too cold in the garage now 😨

Thanks for that suggestion Nick.

Ian

Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #762496
01/14/19 12:04 am
01/14/19 12:04 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

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Ianbuck  Offline OP

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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Yeah your spot on there Nick, that photo is a bit old. I dug that one out and found the flat end of the original ball bearing below it. I have since replaced it with one of the correct size.

Attached Files
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #762530
01/14/19 11:41 am
01/14/19 11:41 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,502
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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Posts: 4,502
argyll. scotland, uk
IME The "click" is caused by the balls going over the top of the ramps, what Nickl says,start from scratch, slack cable, leave a half turn of play at the centre adjuster,leave generous slack at the cable end, should now operate OK. None of this is helped by the clutch bar lever, most repops have a larger 1 1/8" centre distance from pivot to nipple, this over pulls the mech, original levers were only 7/8* on this critical dimension. if you have a lever with the larger distance leave enough slack to stop it over pulling the 3 ball mech.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #762598
01/14/19 9:50 pm
01/14/19 9:50 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

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Ianbuck  Offline OP

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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Just had a measure up on the levers. The levers that came with the bike were not original, but they do have a 7/8" pivot distance. I'm sure I wasn't getting this problem with those levers.

However, in my desire to give the bike a clubman style make-over, I've fitted Ace Bars and a set of repro Doherty type 200 alloy levers (Spirtfire style), and these do have a 1" pivot centre.

I've just given the cable more slack at lever adjuster and it has reduced the occurrence and ferocity of the clicking.

So i think you have solved that for me Gavin ..... Thanks. I'll refit the old lever tomorrow, to confirm.

However, I do like the alloy levers and I wonder if I could move the bolt over an 1/8" ? I would obviously need to get the pivot holes welded up ...... a future project ☺.

Ian



Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #762602
01/14/19 10:36 pm
01/14/19 10:36 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,502
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,502
argyll. scotland, uk
"repro Doherty type 200 alloy levers (Spirtfire style), and these do have a 1" pivot centre. "

great to look at , horrible to use.Possibly the least ergonomic levers ever made. Unless you have pickpockets fingers.
Make sure the 3 ball ramp mech is lubed well, I like to use black bearing grease here, the stuff with Moly in it.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #762983
01/19/19 8:33 pm
01/19/19 8:33 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

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Ianbuck  Offline OP

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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Reporting progress.

I've just solved the clicking ball bearings in my lifter mechanism. As mentioned above the problem is a result of too much rotation of the moving half of the lifter. This raises the ball bearings to the top of the retention cups ramps (pressed into the mechanism plates) and causes one of the balls to slip and produce a loud clicking noise.

Firstly checked the length of my shortened clutch push rod (to suit the new style SRM clutch pressure plate) and I have the rod spot on, which is pleasing to know. Just got to harden the cut end now.

I found slackening the cable tension in the Doherty lever did reduce the frequency and severity of the clicking, but the amount of cable free play was too much and I couldn't live with that.

So I refitted the original clutch lever ( 7/8" pivot/nipple dimension) and it still produced the clicking noise, and also required a slack cable. However, a bit less slack than the Doherty lever, but it still looked untidy.

I removed the lifter mechanism, took it apart and using a mini sanding drum ( in a dremel ) I polished and slightly elongated the ball bearing ramps on the fixed bottom plate of the lifter. I got a really nice smooth surface finish.

I then used a moly based grease as Gavin suggested, refitted the Doherty lever and to my amazement I now have a completely silent clutch lifter, with nominal free play at the lever.

I have to say I really like these Doherty type 200 levers, I take a M/L glove and don't consider my hands to be small. I find the reach is just about right.

Happy Days

Ian







Attached Files
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #763049
01/20/19 7:31 pm
01/20/19 7:31 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,471
West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy

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Allan Gill  Online Happy

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,471
West Yorkshire
After finding the same problems as yourself, I lubricate mine with nothing more than WD40, it never clicked after that and got full lift at the clutch.


beerchug
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #763062
01/20/19 9:24 pm
01/20/19 9:24 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

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Ianbuck  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
I tried a very light oil, but it would have been interesting to try WD40.

However, the fixed plate on my lifter was a bit pitted in the cups that hold the ball bearings, so they really needed a sanding to get them smooth. The moving plate looks like new, so it was probably replaced as some stage.

By polishing the cups I have only removed a tiny amount of material, so I am still able to dial in the required amount of free play and lift.

Any recommendations for a good low friction clutch cable supplier. ?

Ian

Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #763111
01/21/19 2:01 pm
01/21/19 2:01 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,471
West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy

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Allan Gill  Online Happy

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,471
West Yorkshire
Mine was with a NOS part but agree about having the smooth ramp. At the time I kept diluting grease with WD40, I also wanted to make sure I had maximum lift, in the end I ended up with only the WD40. Something like Duck oil may have been good to try.

I always make my own cables using the venhill kits available. Although Venhill will supply a cable of standard or heavy duty (you want heavy duty for the front brake) if your making a few cables the bird cage tool is a good piece of kit to have.

If you are making your own, find the smoothest run possible before you cut anything, it will probably be a longer cable than stock but it will make for a much lighter clutch. Once you feel you have it right, cut the outer cable and place that in position, slide the inner cable through and check again it should slide through with zero drag.

Solder on the trumpet nipple for the ball ramp end, then use a soldier less nipple
On the lever end. This way you can adjust and be sure you have the right length before you start, then remove again, remove the nipple, slide over the solder nipple (and trumpet if it needs one) and use a solder pot to solder the cable in place (flux the cable first)

To make a solder pot,

I use a cheap stainless steel measuring cup from the kitchen.

Place in the cup a roll of plumbing grade solder (some have an element of silver in there) don’t use electrical solder, it won’t hold. Then place the cup over a camping stove, (or the kitchen hob if your brave) then place the fluxed cable into the pot, only as deep as the nipple/trumpet and long enough so that it stops bubbling. This will ensure full soldering of the cable.

HTH


beerchug
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Allan Gill] #763273
01/23/19 8:59 am
01/23/19 8:59 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,020
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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BSA_WM20  Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,020
Sydney Australia
If you are going to do this add a metal seal wrap from a champers bottle.
Some fine wines have them as well, but those sorts of vintages would be limited to Brough or Vincient owners.
The metallic wrap is almost pure tin.
The tin will solidify first and make the outside nice & shinny.
Do the same if you are so skint that you have to make your own sinkers from old car batteries.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #763276
01/23/19 11:58 am
01/23/19 11:58 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
Ianbuck Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Ianbuck  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 146
London, UK
I like the idea of making my own cables, I've changed the handlebars, levers and tank, so the existing cables are likely to be the wrong length. It looks like I can get every thing I need and more from Venhill.

I was wondering if the lifter end needed anything other than the lead trumpet shaped nipple. Having that small lead nipple sitting straight in the lifter arm looks like it could wear down easily?

Also do you drink the wine before or after you start playing around with a cup of molten solder and tin cork wrap 😂

Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #763301
01/23/19 5:13 pm
01/23/19 5:13 pm
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 249
seattle
T
tiumphdave Offline
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tiumphdave  Offline
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T

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 249
seattle
Originally Posted by Ianbuck
I was wondering if the lifter end needed anything other than the lead trumpet shaped nipple. Having that small lead nipple sitting straight in the lifter arm looks like it could wear down easily?


I suspect the nipple is brass, the ones I use are, although I get them from Flanders.

Re: 1970 A65 Clutch Activator [Re: Ianbuck] #763319
01/23/19 7:56 pm
01/23/19 7:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,356
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
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Andy Higham  Offline
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A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,356
Bolton Lancs UK
My observations on cable making.
One of These make it easier to splay the inner wire easily
For throttle cables use wire rope rather than wire strand, it is a lot more flexible and smoother.
Wire strand for clutch and brake
A solder pot like This is ideal
A 90 deg bend ferrule on the top of the throttle cable stops the unsightly and dangerous "dangle"
Use liquid flux, it penetrates the strands better


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"

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