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Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760667
12/28/18 12:07 am
12/28/18 12:07 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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U.S.
Related to the Ariel in only the most tenuous way, my younger daughter is in town for a few days and today we took our traditional holiday father-daughter ride on modern bikes. Scheduling kept us to only half our usual 250-mile ride, but we had a great time nonetheless.

It was in the low 40s when we started out at 9 am, and it dropped into the high 30s as we ascended the low mountain range south of here, so we passed very few other motorcyclists on the road. Because, around here, you'd have to be insane, or Canadian, to ride when it's so cold. Finally coming to the Ariel connection to this post, my time near the Rockies taught me that not only is it possible to survive such temperatures, it can be quite pleasant. The big qualifier to this is, if you can keep your hands warm.

I only discovered the existence of battery-powered gloves while I was already on the Cannonball, so it was too late, and when I returned I didn't order a pair because I was still in the mindset of only insane Canadians... I mean, insane, or Canadian, would ride when it was below 72 ⸰F. But, today there was no choice but to ride (or forego the tradition) irrespective of the temperature. Anyway, my fingers did start to tingle the last 10 miles so now I'm hoping a sane Canadian can point me to a good pair of rechargeable glove liners. Not gloves, but liners to go inside leather gloves.

I mentioned in some earlier post that with the Ariel's 3-speed gearbox I always knew what gear I was in. Today it seemed particularly apparent that with a 100+ h.p., 6-speed bike I never knew what gear I was in to closer than about plus/minus two. Because, on a ride like today's, where we went fast, but weren't racing, there's no reason to care. Also, I realized that when riding with someone else the throttle on a modern bike often functions as a positioning device rather than as an accelerator. If I found I had let a larger gap open up than I wanted I'd twist my right wrist slightly and after a couple of seconds slightly twist it back, having repositioned my bike at half the previous distance to hers.

Although on the Cannonball we only were on Interstate highways for very few miles, we were on one long stretch of divided highway in Iowa that is an Interstate in all but name. Going 55 and being passed by trucks going 75 is no fun, so roads like those were particularly unpleasant. In contrast, today we were on an Interstate for ten or so miles. Merging on a modern bike is trivial since in the length of the transition area I easily could (and did) enter behind a semi that was in the right lane going at least 65 and decide to merge well in front of it. Twist the throttle for a few sec. and I was there. I couldn't do that on the Ariel.

I'm not arguing that a modern bike is more fun than a 90-year old one. I find modern, 50-year (Gold Stars) and 90-year (Ariel) equally fun, but the experiences are significantly different.

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Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760694
12/28/18 9:35 am
12/28/18 9:35 am
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 222
England
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George Kaplan Online content
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England
As someone who regularly rides in similar temperatures I agree that your hands are THE factor that differentiates between an enjoyable ride and a miserable one. I use gloves that plug into my modern(ish) bike rather than rechargeable ones so I am afraid I cant recommend a brand. (the reason is that I know that I will forget to charge a battery occasionally) What I can say, based on my experience only, is that I usually only get a couple of years out of a pair before one of them fails. I am sure some others on here will be along to recommend or otherwise a particular battery powered pair.

Your comments re the contrast of a modern bike vs an old one are noted and I agree with them and also I too occasionally forget what gear I am in out of the 6 available although in the main I find that with regular riding I seem to have trained my brain to keep track of gears 90% of the time. A lot of bikes these days have a digital dash which tell you what gear you are in to avoid confusion although I am now telling you what you already know.

I reckon that your daughters will tell you that you don't need to remember about gears if your ride has four legs rather than 2 wheels. smile

Happy New Year MM.

John

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760704
12/28/18 2:56 pm
12/28/18 2:56 pm
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 875
Wisconsin, USA
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franko Online content

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Wisconsin, USA
I have a BMW R 80 RT that I ride all year. In the winter, when at least the main roads are dry, I will go for a ride. I need to be sure to head back an hour before the sun starts to set, as the snow that melted and ran across the road will start to turn to ice.
I don't have heated gloves, but the hand grips are outside of the fairing and my hands would get cold from the breeze
I bought the hand guards from a GS model BMW. They fit right on and it is enough for my hands to stay warm with just gloves. Also I won't be caught out with a battery going dead or heaters malfunctioning.
I looked for possible options for you.
https://www.eBay.com/i/153003548499?chn=ps or https://www.denniskirk.com/moose/st...ro177Y4aAmkeEALw_wcB&ad=228600803220
without drilling the bars, a couple of hose clamps with a section of inner tube under to protect the bars would work to keep the guards in place and be easily removed when the weather gets better.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760710
12/28/18 3:53 pm
12/28/18 3:53 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 875
Big Island, Hawaii
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Deadstiffcatt Offline
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Big Island, Hawaii
MM, I did a lot of commuting (25 miles each way) on a 1965 Triumph here in nor-cal. A good percentage of the time is spent late at night, temps hit mid 40's down to mid thirties during that commute for about 3 or 4 months. I use a light brown jersey glove as a liner, then a set of leather gloves from -eBay. I have found that throwing a third glove made of rubber ( military surplus found on e bay as well) on top of this combo, helps to break the wind and gives me full water resistance when it is pouring down wet stuff. An option you may also consider is checking with a snowmobile dealer- those guys ride fast in cold too. Joe

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760713
12/28/18 4:16 pm
12/28/18 4:16 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Originally Posted by George Kaplan
As someone who regularly rides in similar temperatures ... I usually only get a couple of years out of a pair before one of them fails.
Originally Posted by franko
I have a BMW R 80 RT that I ride all year... hand guards from a GS model BMW
First, a couple of anecdotes. When I moved to Illinois from California for my first job I thought all it would take to let me ride through the winter would be a heavier jacket. That delusion didn't survive through October, at which point I put the bike away until spring. Some years ago BMW loaned me a bike in Spain that had heated hand grips, which I thought was a pretty useless option. That is, until I was crossing the Pyrenees, when hitting the 'on' switch increased my comfort level by 100%.

Unlike you two hard-core winter riders, I'm a wimp who normally only rides during the ~300 sunny and warm days/year where I live. However, when I was on the Cannonball I discovered one day in the Rockies that, other than my hands, the rest of me was warm so riding in frigid weather actually is possible, and even could be quite pleasant. But, while the rest of me was warm enough that day, my fingers had lost all their feeling by the time I stopped for an early lunch, to the point I couldn't get my helmet off because I couldn't feel the strap threaded through the 'D' rings.

Having warm hands would open up additional riding days and, since I would use heated liners only once in a blue moon, rechargeable batteries should die of old age before the wiring fails. Like the Ariel, the Gold Stars and ET-powered Triumph lack even useless 6V batteries so the gloves either have to be magneto-powered, or use their own rechargeable batteries. Hand guards would be an excellent idea if I regularly rode a given bike in the cold (i.e. sub-72 °F), but aren't a practical solution for me.

Yesterday I laid out all the clothing choices for my daughter to pick from which caused me to re-discover a pair of gloves I've had since college that came with cotton liners. The original liners disintegrated decades ago but in them now are some sort of "thermal-looking" liners woven from an unknown material that I added at some unknown time. That's what gave me the idea to look for liners rather than full gloves since they would allow me to retain the protection of leather while also letting me bask in the warmth.

This is where an actual recommendation would be useful since rechargeable gloves/liners are advertised for outdoor hiking or skiing, not for keeping the hands of a sedentary person warm in an 80 mph (or even 55 mph) breeze. They're not cheap so it would be good to know they actually provide heat as fast as the wind takes it away before buying a pair.

Originally Posted by Deadstiffcatt
I have found that throwing a third glove made of rubber ...checking with a snowmobile dealer
Thanks for those suggestions. I have a pair of ski gloves I use on cold days (well, on days I consider to be cold...), but the problem with them is the thickness makes them uncomfortable when gripping the handlebars for long periods. Aside from a lack of snowmobile dealers near where I live, I don't think their gloves typically need to deal with the speeds motorcycles reach, nor for the length of time continuously spent at those speeds. Also, looking at images on-line, a lot of them have hand guards like franko recommends.


Last edited by Magnetoman; 12/28/18 4:26 pm.
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760719
12/28/18 5:56 pm
12/28/18 5:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,502
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
My cold weather experiences mimic Franko. I have tried a couple of unmentioned options, Hippo Hands do a good job of keeping the wind chill at bay, they are a sort of wrap over muff that enclose your gloved hands and levers. Chemical hand warmers are also a boon, the slim round types that fisherman use, they are simple to recharge by dropping them in a pan of hot water, its good to keep a pair in the tank back or a jacket pocket for restoring numb digits. I tried wrap round heated grips, didnt like the bigger grip, also pretty ineffective at speed, wind chill beating heat input above 50 mph.
My other sport/ hobby involves severe wind chill with the near impossibility of wearing gloves, this means numb digits and the dreaded "hot aches", at the first sign of numbness, immediately stop / get back to shore and beat your arms to slap opposite shoulders, caught in time this saves much suffering, if you let the numbness soak in , then "hot aches" can have you in tears, wishing someone would cut your hands off.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760722
12/28/18 7:20 pm
12/28/18 7:20 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Magnetoman  Online Content OP

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Posts: 5,202
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
Hippo Hands do a good job of keeping the wind chill at bay... Chemical hand warmers are also a boon,
I can't find the photograph right now, but when I was in France last month I saw a motor scooter with a sort of super-Hippo Hands setup that included a heavy flap that covered the rider's legs. It looked cozy, but it isn't a workable solution for me.

I hadn't counted them before, but I have nine pair of riding gloves in the closet ranging from thin short ones for dirt bike-riding in the summer to (allegedly) winter-weight. Unfortunately, none are Arctic-weight.

When we were parked at the Harley dealer in Great Falls MT waiting for our daily ration of pulled pork someone told me that a gigantic hunting/sporting/ranching/outdoors store across the street had chemical hand and foot warmers so I immediately went over and bought a supply of both. The Cannonball's photographer, Michael Lichter, told me they worked well for him when he placed the packets on the backs of his hands. However, they only worked OK-ish for me. Maybe his blood circulation is just better than mine, but I think another difference was he rode backwards on a bike so his fingers weren't constantly in the wind (although he had to take his gloves off every time he was photographing).

With the chemical warmers on the backs of my hands the backs of my hands were warm but the tips of my fingers still went numb. So, if a given rechargeable hand warmer only has heating coils in the backs, not in the fingers, it wouldn't be useful for me. Also, all of them seem to have claimed heating times of only ~2 hrs. on 'high' (8 hrs. on 'low') so even if they work at 80 mph, but only on 'high', that wouldn't be good, either.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760727
12/28/18 8:01 pm
12/28/18 8:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,986
Greensboro, NC
Alan_nc Offline
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Greensboro, NC
I have a pair of the original vetter Hippo-Hands. Always worked well for me. Fleece lined. You need to know your controls by heart as you can't see anything. I used them when I was commuting on a R1150R for several years. Since it had heated grips, with the 'hands' it was good down into the 30ies. At that point the problem became my feet and legs. My commute was approx. 50 miles one way with about 20 miles on the interstate so I got up to some pretty good speeds and for a good while.

Really don't mean this as a plug but if you need a picture they are listed on eBay.

Last edited by Alan_nc; 12/28/18 9:17 pm.

Alan
Cleared m out....left only
59 BSA Bantam (Trials)
78 Triumph Bonny (UPS)
02 Suzuki GS500
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Alan_nc] #760741
12/28/18 10:30 pm
12/28/18 10:30 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Magnetoman  Online Content OP

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Originally Posted by Alan_nc
I have a pair of the original vetter Hippo-Hands. ...
I'd completely forgotten that Craig designed those. He and I have been friends for 20 years and until his father died about five years ago he lived 100 miles from here. Craig stopped by every year on his way to visit him to catch up on things. Unfortunately, hitting a deer just over three years ago put Craig out of commission for months. It was a long, slow recovery after that accident.

Originally Posted by Alan_nc
You need to know your controls by heart as you can't see anything.
Throttle, choke, advance/retard and compression release; not only have to remember what's what, have to remember by feel what's the correct setting of each. However, the real downside to having them on a bike in a mostly warm and sunny State is it eliminates any possibility of pretending to be too macho to be affected by the weather.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760746
12/28/18 11:28 pm
12/28/18 11:28 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 543
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
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Posts: 543
Cork Ireland
Hi MM,
Have a look at these links,
My wife has a pair of Gerbing heated motorcycle gloves and temp controller, She loves them, the A10 with 12v conversion copes without complaint
Several other friends have their motorcycle gloves and heated clothing and are "happy campers"

https://gerbing.eu/en/heated-gloves/ and https://gerbing.eu/en/batteries-temperature-control/
They only seem to have liners in 12v though??

or

https://www.gydesupply.com/gloves-4 and https://www.gydesupply.com/accessories-3


John

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: chaterlea25] #760756
12/29/18 12:54 am
12/29/18 12:54 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Magnetoman  Online Content OP

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Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Originally Posted by chaterlea25
My wife has a pair of Gerbing heated motorcycle gloves and temp controller,
That's great information. Thanks. However, please ask her what setting she uses on the temperature controller on the coldest days you ride. The 7V vs. 12V option isn't an issue, but external battery life is. With their largest external battery they claim a lifetime of only 1 hr. on the 'high' setting (3 hrs. on 'low'). It wouldn't be unreasonable to carry a spare battery for a day of riding if 'low' were OK, but six batteries for 'high' would be a bit much.

The specs on the gerbing site are very helpful since now knowing what they consider to be 'high' is 27 Watts tells me the size of a battery that would last all day. It also says a pair of gloves wouldn't make a dent in a modern bike's electrical output, but would suck the life out of a Magdyno.


Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760833
12/29/18 10:35 pm
12/29/18 10:35 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 543
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
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Posts: 543
Cork Ireland
Hi MM,
Remembering your going's on with the hand warmers on the Cannonball while I thought it was quite "warm" on the same day
could mean comparison is meaningless, unless you know that my wife likes her "comfort"
Anyway, without the controller the gloves will actually burn your hands after a while (in non artic Ireland)
I would estimate 1/2 to 2/3 on the controller gives enough heat on the coldest days that we venture out on

John

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: chaterlea25] #760880
12/30/18 4:15 pm
12/30/18 4:15 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content OP

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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Originally Posted by chaterlea25
Remembering your going's on with the hand warmers on the Cannonball while I thought it was quite "warm" on the same day
Your hands were warm because you were in the heated cab of a U-Haul!...

Battery-powered gloves are definitely on my list of items I 'need' once I learn a bit more about the various options. Lifetime comes down to compromise between insulation thickness and feel. With enough insulation a mW would be plenty so a battery would power them for days, although the gloves would be so thick they'd be useless.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760925
12/30/18 11:23 pm
12/30/18 11:23 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 516
Dallas Texas
RPM Offline
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Dallas Texas
We did not have heated gloves but we did have heated jackets we wore under our normal riding gear. The battery would last about six hours on low. We carried a spare and changed when needed. I was never uncomfortable on the trip. We also wore latex gloves under our winter gloves on cooler days. It made a difference especially when the gloves got a little wet going through Glacier National Forest.
I hate cold weather at anytime that is why I brought my heated jacket to Red River New Mexico this week. My family forced me to come. They ski and I stay at our house and read.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #760946
12/31/18 1:49 am
12/31/18 1:49 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Magnetoman  Online Content OP

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U.S.
Originally Posted by RPM
I hate cold weather at anytime
I completely agree, but with one exception. I enjoy giving talks in the Midwest in the depths of winter because I know I'll be cold for the short time I'm there but then I'll get to return to the warmth of the Southwest, while they have to stay there. Schadenfreude.

We took a fairly difficult hike into the mountains yesterday despite the frigid (by my standards) temperature. I should have taken gloves because the rest of me was quite warm but my hands were cold. But, cold hands, warm heart...

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #761075
12/31/18 11:59 pm
12/31/18 11:59 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 841
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 841
Overland Missouri
Winter? A Langlitz Police Apron helps a lot... looks kind of square though. Cops and funeral escort riders still use them.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #761078
01/01/19 12:01 am
01/01/19 12:01 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 841
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
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Overland Missouri
And the vote is in for BEST Motorcycling Read of 2018... MM's fantastic saga is even better than Titch Allen's Norton Saga!
Very much appreciated, indeed, and long may it continue!

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: old mule] #761085
01/01/19 12:38 am
01/01/19 12:38 am
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,929
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Online content
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Q

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Posts: 1,929
Pacific northwest
Staying warm , soviet-style .

[Linked Image]

... and Parisian Style

[Linked Image]

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: quinten] #761901
01/08/19 5:57 am
01/08/19 5:57 am
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 18
Billings Montana USA
dTalknMT Offline
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Billings Montana USA
Received the new AMCA mag today...front cover and big article on the Cannonball.....and a pix of MM wrenching ! …..;-)
Also an 8 page Cannonball story in the newest Sleasyriders plus a story on Matt Walksler's 92" JDH...that thing sounds like a blast to ride !

Last edited by dTalknMT; 01/08/19 1:04 pm.

TBDMC never ride faster than your angel can fly
1980 FXE...2009 FLHR...2016 FLTRU...1980XLH
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: dTalknMT] #762061
01/09/19 4:45 pm
01/09/19 4:45 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

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Magnetoman  Online Content OP

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U.S.
Originally Posted by dTalknMT
....and a pix of MM wrenching ! ….
The caption says I'm fixing the timing chain, but I'm actually doing something to the gearbox sprocket. However, I can't remember exactly what I was doing or where that photo was taken because the evening maintenance and repairs are all blurred together. Such is the nature of two weeks worth of sleep deprivation on the Cannonball.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #762070
01/09/19 5:35 pm
01/09/19 5:35 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,527
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content

DOPE
kevin roberts  Online Content

DOPE

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Posts: 4,527
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by dTalknMT
....and a pix of MM wrenching ! ….
The caption says I'm fixing the timing chain, but I'm actually doing something to the gearbox sprocket. However, I can't remember exactly what I was doing or where that photo was taken because the evening maintenance and repairs are all blurred together. Such is the nature of two weeks worth of sleep deprivation on the Cannonball.



i'm that way already without even that excuse.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: kevin roberts] #762430
01/13/19 1:51 am
01/13/19 1:51 am
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 18
Billings Montana USA
dTalknMT Offline
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Billings Montana USA
The Cannonball story is good…..I enjoyed it anyways.....

I'm thinking Mr Roberts changed from his warf rat story/quote....I was going to copy it and add it to a collection of quotes(?)...of course I didn't get to it til you changed it...and all the previous posts changed with it...of course....;-P...can ya run it once more please...?


TBDMC never ride faster than your angel can fly
1980 FXE...2009 FLHR...2016 FLTRU...1980XLH
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: dTalknMT] #762449
01/13/19 1:40 pm
01/13/19 1:40 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,527
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content

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kevin roberts  Online Content

DOPE

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ohio, usa
Originally Posted by dTalknMT
The Cannonball story is good…..I enjoyed it anyways.....

I'm thinking Mr Roberts changed from his warf rat story/quote....I was going to copy it and add it to a collection of quotes(?)...of course I didn't get to it til you changed it...and all the previous posts changed with it...of course....;-P...can ya run it once more please...?



lol


from a classic work

the wind in tbe willows, i believe

with just a bit of editing, here's a version


[Linked Image]
[T]he Rat let out the clutch and took to the lane again. “Do you know, I’ve never been on a bike before in my life.” [shouted the Mole]

“What?” cried the Rat, open-mouthed: “never been on a – you never – well I – what have you been doing, then?”

“are bikes so nice as all that? called the Mole …[as he] felt the bike lurch lightly under him.

“Nice? they're the only thing,” cried the Water Rat solemnly, as he leant forward on the handlebars “Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing – absolutely nothing – half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes. Simply messing,” he went on dreamily: “messing – about – with – bikes; messing -“

“Look ahead, Rat!” cried the Mole suddenly.

It was too late.



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: kevin roberts] #762502
01/14/19 12:59 am
01/14/19 12:59 am
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 18
Billings Montana USA
dTalknMT Offline
BritBike Forum member
dTalknMT  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 18
Billings Montana USA
Thank you, Sir.......I'm still getting edukated....whether I work at it or not....;-)


TBDMC never ride faster than your angel can fly
1980 FXE...2009 FLHR...2016 FLTRU...1980XLH
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #763129
01/21/19 9:00 pm
01/21/19 9:00 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content OP

BritBike Forum member
Magnetoman  Online Content OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,202
U.S.
An interesting development on the Cannonball front is new eight-day "Cross Country Chase" has just been announced for this September, covering ~2500 miles from Sault Ste. Marie MI to Key West FL. Bikes from 1930-1948, without any support crew, will make the ride, having to carry all tools, spares and clothes on the bike. Scoring, miles/day, route sheets, etc. sound like they will be pretty much along Cannonball lines.

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