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BSA at Isle of Man. #761884
01/08/19 3:40 am
01/08/19 3:40 am
Joined: Jun 2017
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Canada
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Alexp Offline OP
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What were they running? I know they didn’t have much success, but I’m very curious about the bikes they raced. We’re there any 250’s racing? Were they production models or one off bikes?

Thanks for any and all information!

Alex

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Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761895
01/08/19 4:07 am
01/08/19 4:07 am
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Orygone
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It would help if you would narrow your question, like what era? What class?


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761905
01/08/19 9:06 am
01/08/19 9:06 am
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,876
Scotland
kommando Online content
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The IOM Clubmans races were abandoned because the Gold Star was the only bike being entered according to stories being told. Hardly unsuccessful if true, and they did win most of that race category.

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761926
01/08/19 3:39 pm
01/08/19 3:39 pm
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Alexp Offline OP
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Sorry! I should have been clearer!! Early 70s is what I was thinking. Specifically the 250 class (if they had entered a machine into that class).


Alex

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761928
01/08/19 4:08 pm
01/08/19 4:08 pm
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West Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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I believe the A50 Daytona raced it circa 67’ but were they looking at TT in the 70’s? They were always better in the dirt and probably concentrated on B50 MX and the A70

Just my 2c


beerchug
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761932
01/08/19 4:46 pm
01/08/19 4:46 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,211
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Originally Posted by Alexp
Sorry! I should have been clearer!! Early 70s is what I was thinking. Specifically the 250 class (if they had entered a machine into that class).


Alex


In the 70's, there was one rider each year 70 - 71 - 72 on a BSA Triple (2nd in 1971/Ray Pickrell). BSA had nothing else that would even come close to competing with any other bike, much less in the 250 class, by that time. They'd be running against TD3 Yamahas and such, which would literally be twice as fast ....

Lannis


You should have to pass a drug test to receive a welfare check... because I had to pass one to earn it for you.
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Lannis] #761944
01/08/19 6:55 pm
01/08/19 6:55 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,910
Pacific northwest
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quinten Online confused
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Pacific northwest

Not bsa factory but .. privateers riding a BSA ... kind of as a last gasp


In 1975
... Phil Gurner created a sensation on the Mead & Tomkinson bike at the Isle of Man. He broke the 500 Production TT lap record at 95,66 mph
with a four year old bike.
But the dream was short-lived. Phil was leading the race
when he crashed at Ramsey Harpin.
Phil continued the race, after several pitstops, and finished 12th at 87,37 mph. 

[Linked Image]
http://www.b50.org/mead.htm

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761948
01/08/19 7:14 pm
01/08/19 7:14 pm
Joined: Feb 2011
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Orygone
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The Mead & Tomkinson B50 was on display at the BSA Inter Rally in Halls Gap a couple of months ago. It may even have been available for the right price.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: kommando] #761954
01/08/19 7:38 pm
01/08/19 7:38 pm
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Originally Posted by kommando
The IOM Clubmans races were abandoned because the Gold Star was the only bike being entered according to stories being told. Hardly unsuccessful if true, and they did win most of that race category.





For the last Senior Clubman race in 1956 of the 28 entries, 16 were Gold Stars. The other 12 were mostly Triumphs with maybe a couple of Nortons. The top 10 finishers were all Gold Stars except for 7th which was a Triumph. In other words the Gold Star dominated and really had no competition.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761957
01/08/19 8:44 pm
01/08/19 8:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,429
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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Clipped from elsewhere after googling "BSA TT knife edge rocker failure", its the way I recall it, fingers burned, they didnt like the embarrassment. stayed bread and butter , later on the MC2 wasnt good enough to guarantee a victory so it never went out, according to Roland Pike it was under cooled , wouldnt last the pace.

"Although BSA amassed an enviable competition record in the worlds of trials and moto-cross in the 1950s and 1960s, dominated the Clubman’ s TT with the Gold Star, and scored some notable successes in production-based circuit racing in the 1970s, it only once mounted a full works effort at the highest level. That was back in the early 1920s, when ‘highest level’ meant the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy races, acknowledged as the most demanding motorcycle competition environment in the world. BSA had first dipped a toe in TT waters in 1913, entering a team of essentially standard roadsters. For the first post-war TT of 1920 a full works effort with purpose-built racers was planned, but the prototype did not perform to expectations and BSA went back to the drawing board. The 1920 bike had employed an aluminium-alloy cylinder head with four valves, but its successor reverted to a sparsely finned, cast-iron, two-valve ’head. Convention stopped there however, for the valves – vertical rather than inclined – were opened via un-lubricated rockers pivoting on a knife-edge. While its valvegear might have caused a few raised eyebrows, the BSA’s cycle parts looked altogether more promising, the inclined engine being housed in a stylish tubular frame with sloping top tube. Although tested briefly at Brooklands, the new BSA was immediately found wanting in the steering department once practice began on the Island, resulting in a switch to a larger-diameter front wheel. Engine problems dogged the team throughout practice, and in the Senior race itself all six BSAs had retired by the end of lap two. It was an embarrassing and humiliating failure that left an indelible scar on the BSA board’s collective psyche: never again would it put the firm’s hard-won reputation at risk in the unpredictable world of racing."

Stolen from this Bonhams site, check out the front down tube, less than 2 grand for a vintaage GP bike. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/15320/lot/524/


"

Last edited by gavin eisler; 01/08/19 8:59 pm.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761978
01/08/19 10:59 pm
01/08/19 10:59 pm
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 185
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Alexp Offline OP
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You guys are fantastic! I’m interested purely as I would love to do a sort of Isle of Man TT look to an early 70s bsa 250. Obviously it would be something that was never actually used, but I may do it anyways, as it would be a lot of fun, and I feel I would learn a ton along the way. Nothing stupid, as I don’t want to ruin a perfectly good bike, but definitely some engine mods, modding the oil return with a filter, that sort of thing. Is this a terrible idea?

Alex

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761995
01/09/19 12:36 am
01/09/19 12:36 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,406
Australia
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NickL Online content
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Most people forget the huge competition success of the A65/70 as a sidecar outfit engine in the 60's and early 70's.
All privately entered though, sidecars never had the glamour or marketing appeal of slowlo's. (solo's)


Life is much too important to be taken seriously.
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #761998
01/09/19 12:49 am
01/09/19 12:49 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,686
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Alex, a couple of years ago at Mid-Ohio, a chap from Canada came down with a very fast B25 flattracker that was beating out Bultaco Astros on the half mile.

I don't know his name, but I can find out - my engine man in Syracuse said he knows of him. Could be an interesting person to talk with.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: NickL] #761999
01/09/19 12:57 am
01/09/19 12:57 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,211
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Originally Posted by NickL
Most people forget the huge competition success of the A65/70 as a sidecar outfit engine in the 60's and early 70's.
All privately entered though, sidecars never had the glamour or marketing appeal of slowlo's. (solo's)


I don't think most BSA guys who lived in that time have forgotten any of that. The A65-based outfits and flattrackers punched WAY above their weight for a long time, after they were supposed to be dead.

But (per the original question) BSAs at the IOM in the 250 classes? No way no how ....

Lannis


You should have to pass a drug test to receive a welfare check... because I had to pass one to earn it for you.
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Mark Z] #762004
01/09/19 1:40 am
01/09/19 1:40 am
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Mark that would be absolutely fantastic! Would very much appreciate that!!! Thank you so much!

And I had no idea about the sidecar thing. I’m very new to motorcycles (3 years), so between trying to learn my own bike, as well as the history of everything is proving to be incredibly rewarding.

Alex

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #762014
01/09/19 3:12 am
01/09/19 3:12 am
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Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Ok, I'll chase that down and let you know. What province are you from? I'm pretty sure the guy I'm talking about is from Ontario.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Mark Z] #762050
01/09/19 2:56 pm
01/09/19 2:56 pm
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Canada
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Alexp Offline OP
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I am also from Ontario. I live in Ottawa.

Thanks so much again Mark. I’ve picked up a great book written by PE Irving called Tuning for Speed. I’ve only perused it so far but there are some pretty serious things in there. From working on the inlet port, right through to balancing flywheels. It’s going to be a fascinating read.

Alex

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #762054
01/09/19 3:50 pm
01/09/19 3:50 pm
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Leicester, UK
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stanoneandonly Offline
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Check out Chris Vincent on Wiki. He raced BSA A10s and 65s.

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Boomer] #762084
01/09/19 6:51 pm
01/09/19 6:51 pm
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bon Offline
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Originally Posted by Boomer
Originally Posted by kommando
The IOM Clubmans races were abandoned because the Gold Star was the only bike being entered according to stories being told. Hardly unsuccessful if true, and they did win most of that race category.





For the last Senior Clubman race in 1956 of the 28 entries, 16 were Gold Stars. The other 12 were mostly Triumphs with maybe a couple of Nortons. The top 10 finishers were all Gold Stars except for 7th which was a Triumph. In other words the Gold Star dominated and really had no competition.


Bill B...



I was always surprised that the likes of the velocettes and ajs were not more successful.

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: stanoneandonly] #762099
01/09/19 8:44 pm
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Alexp Offline OP
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Chris Vincent is quite the man! Thanks for that. I’ve been off work sick, and this was a great topic to get engaged in this afternoon!

Alex

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Alexp] #762111
01/09/19 10:47 pm
01/09/19 10:47 pm
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New Jersey USA
Tridentman Online content

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Great sidecar racers from the 60s in UK.
I remember many trips to my local road race circuit---Mallory Park. The sidecars were the most exciting races.
Mostly on BSAs with a few Triumphs.
On BSAs w I remember the Boddices---father Bill and son Mick (two different outfits) and then the Hanks family---Norman and his brother, Roy with their father (three separate outfits).
All from Birmingham and all as per rumor getting some help from the factory--either officially or under the table.
Most were on kneeler outfits but the Hanks father was very stoutly built and raced a "sit up and beg" outfit.
You would see "Fatty Hanks" overtaking a kneeler on a corner man handling his outfit and sitting up there like a king on his throne.
Happy Days!

Re: BSA at Isle of Man. [Re: Tridentman] #762117
01/09/19 11:45 pm
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Alexp Offline OP
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Trident, that’s a fantastic story! Thanks for sharing! It seems I was born 30 years too late!

Alex


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