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BSA-Mahindra #757262
11/27/18 4:00 am
11/27/18 4:00 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,596
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline OP
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Mark Z  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,596
Owego, NY, USA


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
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Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757275
11/27/18 8:54 am
11/27/18 8:54 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,279
arkansas
L
leon bee Online content
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leon bee  Online Content
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L

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,279
arkansas
Looks like they oughta just call em BS, instead of BSA.

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757277
11/27/18 10:11 am
11/27/18 10:11 am
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 454
Au
M
markoz Offline
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markoz  Offline
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M

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 454
Au
I liked the gold star

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757285
11/27/18 11:47 am
11/27/18 11:47 am
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 166
Perth, Western Australia
H
Howley Offline
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Howley  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 166
Perth, Western Australia
Jeez I can see why the guy's tenure as designer was "brief"!

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757304
11/27/18 3:57 pm
11/27/18 3:57 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,135
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy

BritBike Forum member
Allan Gill  Online Happy

BritBike Forum member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,135
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Think i'll throw up


beerchug
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757309
11/27/18 4:18 pm
11/27/18 4:18 pm
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 11
Leicester, UK
S
stanoneandonly Offline
BritBike Forum member
stanoneandonly  Offline
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S

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 11
Leicester, UK
In fairness they are not going to make A10s and Goldies. Look at triumph.m

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: stanoneandonly] #757311
11/27/18 4:22 pm
11/27/18 4:22 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,135
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Online happy

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Allan Gill  Online Happy

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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,135
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted by stanoneandonly
In fairness they are not going to make A10s and Goldies. Look at triumph.m


Never expected that either, but out of the big names, Norton have done quite a nice job, also Royal Enfield make some really nice bikes of which apeal to my classic view point. I would be throwing up less had they just made a typical rice burner style bike and made the BSA element more suttle....


beerchug
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Allan Gill] #757316
11/27/18 5:08 pm
11/27/18 5:08 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,130
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Online happy

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Rich B  Online Happy

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R

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,130
Stone Creek OH USA
You are reacting to concepts from a “former” designer. Or what ever he was exactly.

Until Mahindra makes it official, whatever they badge as a BSA is speculation. Just remember, for Mahindra, the big dog in the home market is Royal Enfield in this size of bike. My guess, they are going to take on RE in looks, performance and pricing.


Never underestimate the human ability to elevate stupid to a whole new level!.
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757327
11/27/18 7:01 pm
11/27/18 7:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,157
Lucan ON Canada
J
jfligg Offline
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jfligg  Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,157
Lucan ON Canada
I look forward to the bikes. Royal Enfield has done a good job with the continental gt. I have never rode one. But I like the looks. Jeff

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757328
11/27/18 7:22 pm
11/27/18 7:22 pm
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 454
Au
M
markoz Offline
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markoz  Offline
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M

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 454
Au
I cant warm to new RE,s the new designs are pug uggly and the classic seems heartless, classic bikes are a thing of history and thats where they sit. Making a modern bike and hiding it in a old look just smells. Its a bit like when kmart or wallmart? Bring out a line of "classic styled kitchen ware" ...looks shi t

Last edited by markoz; 11/28/18 9:42 am.
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Allan Gill] #757330
11/27/18 8:18 pm
11/27/18 8:18 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,205
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Online content

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Shane in Oz  Online Content

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S

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,205
Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Originally Posted by stanoneandonly
In fairness they are not going to make A10s and Goldies. Look at triumph.m


Never expected that either, but out of the big names, Norton have done quite a nice job, also Royal Enfield make some really nice bikes of which apeal to my classic view point. I would be throwing up less had they just made a typical rice burner style bike and made the BSA element more suttle....
The new Triumph twins seem to sell quite well, so that sort of styling must appeal to enough people to make it worth the company's while to manufacture them.
I prefer the Sprint, which is a very nice sports tourer.
Triumph's approach seems to have worked well commercially - build typical rice burner style bikes with old names first, then go for the nostalgia market.

Just as long as they save the "Gold Star" name for something which can take on the modern super sports machines. Having Gold Stars in 2 capacity classes would be even more fitting smile

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757338
11/27/18 9:39 pm
11/27/18 9:39 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 497
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Online content
BritBike Forum member
chaterlea25  Online Content
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C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 497
Cork Ireland
Hi All,
There has bee all sorts of "Artists impressions" on what the future BSA will look like !!!!!!

The Mahindra Jawa models rely heavily on the original Czech "style" and colour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKhjffUwe3U&feature=push-fr&attr_tag=5PvcjNoWNfnAqYvF%3A6

I suppose its aimed as a direct competition to the Royal Enfield's for the Indian market ????

John

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757362
11/28/18 2:58 am
11/28/18 2:58 am
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 123
Mullaloo Western Straya
B
Bodie Offline
BritBike Forum member
Bodie  Offline
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B

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 123
Mullaloo Western Straya
I'm just disappointed that even after all those "Artist impressions" it still looks like a f%@n rice burner
…..… There I've said it now ! thumbsup grin


I would have thought in this modern age of 3D Printing, CNC machining, Casting & Injection Molding reproducing something that even "vaguely resembles" an original BSA would be easy as falling off a log, Even Kawasaki made a better job of it with the W1 back in 1965 …
Naaaaa !! , Sorry but just sticking a BSA logo on the fuel tank of what probably is a Chinese made engine just doesn't cut it for me ,


Even that Gold star copy looks just like an 1980's 'copy' of a 'copy' >>> Honda GB500 Tourist Trophy .. It's bit of let down don't you think when Mahindra's best looking attempt yet is still just a copy of a 1980's Honda facepalm

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Bodie] #757377
11/28/18 5:36 am
11/28/18 5:36 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
BritBike Forum member
BSA_WM20  Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
Originally Posted by Bodie
I'm just disappointed that even after all those "Artist impressions" it still looks like a f%@n rice burner
…..… There I've said it now ! thumbsup grin


I would have thought in this modern age of 3D Printing, CNC machining, Casting & Injection Molding reproducing something that even "vaguely resembles" an original BSA would be easy as falling off a log, Even Kawasaki made a better job of it with the W1 back in 1965 …
Naaaaa !! , Sorry but just sticking a BSA logo on the fuel tank of what probably is a Chinese made engine just doesn't cut it for me ,


Even that Gold star copy looks just like an 1980's 'copy' of a 'copy' >>> Honda GB500 Tourist Trophy .. It's bit of let down don't you think when Mahindra's best looking attempt yet is still just a copy of a 1980's Honda facepalm


There are many reasons why BSA went to the wall , one of them was producing a bike that the market was not willing to buy & another was abandoning the new entrants to motorcycles because the sexist and racist board room opinion was no one other than the British could build big bikes that men wanted to ride, and we all know where that went.
We are not the target market our kids / grandkids are.
We are dying out, so no future in designing a motorcycle targeted towards a style approvd of by a declining demographic.
If it does not speak to the kids then there will not be enough of a market to sustain profitable production levels.
Stop & have a think about all of the attempts to revive old marques, building over priced retro styled bikes that no one bought.
So the bike has to apeal to the knuckle dragging knee dropping youth which definately is not me and most likely very few of the rest of you in this closed little community.

Can't remember the last time some one under 50 recognised the bike under my bum as a BSA so the 3 letters will not be enough to gain market share.
The grand kids might buy one to impress pop, but unless it performs they won't be buying the second one and like it or not you really have to look fairly well like every other modren bike to perform against other modern motorcycles.
If they are targeting Indonesia, Malasya or Burma exclusively ,countries where the population still know what a BSA is because they are still common on the streets today, then a more retro styling might just work.
However as with the new Ariel's, they are not & never will be a BSA, they are modern motorcycles with an old name tacked onto the tank.

Enfield got away with producing a sub standard motorcycle range for decades because there was a direct link to their heritage but that has been gone for near 50 years in the case of BSA.

Putting BSA on the tank is nothing more than a marketing ploy to gain media attention, a lot cheaper than running factory race teams & hoping for a few wins.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757381
11/28/18 6:40 am
11/28/18 6:40 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,171
Aus
N
NickL Offline
BritBike Forum member
NickL  Offline
BritBike Forum member
N

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,171
Aus
Blimey,,,, you're a bit fired up Trevor.

Sadly though i have to agree, it will be more important to spend time developing a high efficiency electric motor/battery package than
getting the sound of a goldie on full bore correct. Things have changed and will continue to, so when your grandkids ask 'what frequency
are the servo drives working at in that bsa' you will need to know, rather than knowing tappet clearances and timing figures.
All the old magic stuff is for museums now.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: NickL] #757385
11/28/18 6:52 am
11/28/18 6:52 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,824
OZ
Triless Offline
BritBike Forum member
Triless  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,824
OZ
Well, Trevor and Nick, no matter how unpalatable the truth is to some, you're spot on !

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: BSA_WM20] #757387
11/28/18 7:35 am
11/28/18 7:35 am
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,205
Sydney, Oz
S
Shane in Oz Online content

BritBike Forum member
Shane in Oz  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
S

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,205
Sydney, Oz
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
We are not the target market our kids / grandkids are.
We are dying out, so no future in designing a motorcycle targeted towards a style approvd of by a declining demographic.
If it does not speak to the kids then there will not be enough of a market to sustain profitable production levels.
Stop & have a think about all of the attempts to revive old marques, building over priced retro styled bikes that no one bought.
So the bike has to apeal to the knuckle dragging knee dropping youth which definately is not me and most likely very few of the rest of you in this closed little community.
It seems to have worked for Bloor, as the 3rd phase of the new Triumph company.
The first phase with yet more fours had some success, the second phase, using the common platform triples for market differentiation seems to have been a success, and the third phase with the retro twins and cruisersalso seems to be raking it in. They are just one aspect of the product mix, in addition to the triples, but seem to be a lucrative one.
Polaris doesn't seem to have done too badly with Indian, either. but that's just one product line.

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Putting BSA on the tank is nothing more than a marketing ploy to gain media attention, a lot cheaper than running factory race teams & hoping for a few wins.
That approach seems to have worked fairly well for Polaris, to the extent that they've shut down Victory to concentrate on Indian. I don't know enough about Victory or Indian to be able to be able to say how extensively the 2 brands were badge engineered, but clearly the Indian brand recognition paid off for the parent company.

In both cases, the retro styled machines are one product range of a large company. Mahindra is certainly big enough to make a success of the BSA revival provided the machines are competitive,

Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757436
11/28/18 5:28 pm
11/28/18 5:28 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,577
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline

DOPE
kevin roberts  Offline

DOPE

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,577
ohio, usa
im really curious about electric harleys.

HD has spent a generation cultivating brutish cruisers and la z boy touring machinez, all focuzed on the mystique of the current pattern. they havent had a sportbike si ce the superglide or the later sportsters, arguably, and have grown fat specilizing on yet one more iteration of the V twin. over and over

do they have any way to make current customers want an electric motorcycle? do any new riders want a harley that goez hummmmmmmmm . . . ?

they never developed an XR750 for tbe street. they tossed buell . . . the Vrod is apparently DOA.

what will they do differently?


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757471
11/28/18 10:45 pm
11/28/18 10:45 pm
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
The fact that we are all talking about it shows that the marketing philosophy is paying off.
If they had marketed their bikes as Big M or Maddas or any other name few of us would have even noticed them.
Much like we have not noticed the myriad of Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha & HD look alikes flooding out of Chinese factories.

As for HD they have gone down a slightly different route.
Down here the largest selling model by volume for the past 2 years has been the Street Rod , the 400cc minni HD marketed to the Learner & P platers .
Thus they have effectively sold the mistique to a new generation, and if they are lucky enough of them to keep the factory producing.
They are also cutting costs by off shoring the manufacturing but they know their time is limited as California is just 1 step away from legislating HD ( and all other petrol powered engines ) out of existence .
Weather we like it or not the future of 2 wheeled transport in first world countries is going to be electric as EPA regulations get tighter & tighter.
The big profits will be in the 3rd world countries where EPA regulations take a back step over economic development .
Thus marketing to Asian , African & South American markets will yield the greatest potential for profits.
No idea about Africa or South Amercia but there are still a lot of BSA's running around in Asian countries being used as daily transport so there the name still has enough cred to make potential buyers at least look at one.

I would not consider buying a buying a modern Goldie look alike because I know what a Goldie was & is.
So the effect on me would be a dissapointment just the same as naming the B50 & B25 Gold Stars was amarketng disaster for BSA back in the 70's.
When Yamaha introduced the SR 500 & Honda followed with the RSTT they both initially sold well to the "old fart" generation then sales plummeted when we found out they were nothing like the "classics" they were pretending to be.
The younger generations did not like the retro styling so their market time was very short.
However the SR was an excellent bike, when judged as a modern big single, all revs & no torque , very light, excellent handling , great brakes & fabulous lights.
I owned a dozen of them and loved every minute on them so it was a big decision to toss them all in favour of riding BSA's that very nearly went the other way.
But in the market they failed because we were expecting something that went like the old thumpers we remembered from our youth and they were nothing like that at all, so soon ended up very cheap in the used bikes classifieds.

The truth of the matter is they are not BSA's and never will be they are Mahindras and always will be regardless of the styling.
Would you feel comfortable lining one up in a concourse with real Goldies ?
And how much would you pay for one ?
Would you buy a new one every 3 or 4 years ?

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 11/28/18 10:55 pm.

Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: BSA_WM20] #757476
11/28/18 10:58 pm
11/28/18 10:58 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,053
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Online Content

Well'ard Rocker

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,053
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20

Weather we like it or not the future of 2 wheeled transport in first world countries is going to be electric as EPA regulations get tighter & tighter.


Maybe, but I doubt it. Electric vehicles have been getting ready to get ready to supplant IC engines since my great-grandfathers' day. There's still such a massive difference in energy density between gasoline and batteries that electric vehicles still can't make it without subsidies.

And EPA regs have NOT been getting tighter and tighter, far as I can tell ... people are designing new two-stroke engines, local rednecks enjoy "rolling coal" with their penis-substitute Cummins diesel pickups, the state has quit doing tailpipe analysis here during vehicle inspections ... I just don't see IC going off a cliff anytime soon ...

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Mark Z] #757484
11/29/18 1:14 am
11/29/18 1:14 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,171
Aus
N
NickL Offline
BritBike Forum member
NickL  Offline
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N

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,171
Aus
As technology advances, which in electrics/electronics it does at an exponential rate, i'm afraid that
comparisons to your great grandfathers day are not relevant. Yes storing energy in the form of batteries
is not practical in many instances now, but take a look around at European statutes and the growth in
sales of electric and hybrid vehicles, i am not referring to 'anytime soon' but maybe 25-50 years.
I don't really care too much as i'll be long brown bread, but IC like steam will have had it's day in the
not to distant future.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: BSA-Mahindra [Re: Lannis] #757487
11/29/18 2:03 am
11/29/18 2:03 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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BSA_WM20  Offline
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B

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
Originally Posted by Lannis
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20

Weather we like it or not the future of 2 wheeled transport in first world countries is going to be electric as EPA regulations get tighter & tighter.


Maybe, but I doubt it. Electric vehicles have been getting ready to get ready to supplant IC engines since my great-grandfathers' day. There's still such a massive difference in energy density between gasoline and batteries that electric vehicles still can't make it without subsidies.

And EPA regs have NOT been getting tighter and tighter, far as I can tell ... people are designing new two-stroke engines, local rednecks enjoy "rolling coal" with their penis-substitute Cummins diesel pickups, the state has quit doing tailpipe analysis here during vehicle inspections ... I just don't see IC going off a cliff anytime soon ...

Lannis


Well they have Lannis.
That is why all new vehicles are fuel injected.
The 2020 range of mower engines will be all fuel injected if the objections to the legislation fails in the courts.
Two stroke engines in are now on tier 5 in California ( Tier 4 for most other states ) and tier 6 will be impossible for a two stroke to achieve.

Down here tier 2 has just come in.
The warehouses all dumped their non compliant tier 1 engines in June because as of July 1 this year they could no longer sell tier 1 engines.
The retailers have till July 1 next year before retailing them will be illegal.
AFAIK all of the unsold went over to Asia, probably as "foreign aid".
It is all BS as commercial jets dump anything up to 100 gallons of unburned fuel per engine on each & every take off, but jet transport is a sign of a sophisticated and prosperious economy, motorcycles are the devils transport.
Governments are on a winner here because the younger generations have not been taking up drivers / riders licenses in increasing numbers since the mid 90's so they do not care.


Bike Beesa
Trevor

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